There is nada in the SF Chronicle on the subject. These races are finishing downwind. They are sailing appx. 30 knots. 2 minutes would be about 1 mile.
The LV Cup has not even been mentioned on news here as far as I'm aware, so the 'deboracle' even less likely. I am sure the AC itself will get a little bit of 'air', but as we aren't in it bah.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
The LV Cup starts in a couple of hours. The races will be shorter than what we have been watching. one less trip up and down the course.
The SF Chronicle had a follow up on the cheating scandal. One of the boats, Russell Coutts's boat, has been cleared. Spithill's and Ainsle's boats are still suspect. Coutts has said that Larry Ellison et al are honorable men, their reputations are above reproach. Personally, I have never met an honorable billionaire. Eat the Rich!
rule 69?
It pays to know the rules, before you start the race....
Last edited by richarde1605; 08-17-13 at 10:32 PM.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
I can't believe nobody was hurt when New Zealand buried there nose at 40 knots rounding the mark. I am hoping there is no damage that can not be fixed on either boat. Will there be a race 2 today? I do not think Luna Rosa will answer the bell today for race 2, today.
The second race is cancelled for too much wind. Try again Sunday. Check it out.
Why was the port daggerboard not lowered? The weight was transferring to that side. ETNZ were lucky LR was a non starter, or you might have lost your money Trevor.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
I really am getting a kick out of knowledge and comments you all have on the subject of America's Cup. Later on after this is over, I would like to see some commentary on a game of Cricket.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
Are you for real? The cricket will be on again soon, just wait until Australia play New Zealand......
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
I recently read an article about the sport. Between the eggs and bacon club. The ham salad at noon tea and the spread later on in the afternoon... sounds kind of good to me....something i could sink my teeth into.
BMW F800S…….
There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies....
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
Back to the AC...
Looking at the footage of NZ's big handstand (multihullers' hi-techterm for two hull nosedive), my guess is they were not intending to do a full foilng gybe on that particular rounding. Either that, or they were just taken completely unawares by the acceleration from the sudden gust at the critical moment before they could get the board down. What a spectacle! Makes F1 biffo look like playground scuffles.
Glad no one was hurt this time.
Why was the port daggerboard not lowered? The weight was transferring to that side. ETNZ were lucky LR was a non starter, or you might have lost your money Trevor.
SHMBO and I went away for the weekend, so I watched on a 12" telly this morning with my heart in my mouth. I had already decided to watch the second race tonight.
I've now watch the "holy F&&k!" moment again on the 42" and can now see a bit more what happened.
Caught Grant Dalton on News Talk Radio and he was playing it down, said that sort of thing happens all the time when going around the world in the Southern Ocean. He said notice the real sailors did not fall off I think Rob and Chris (the guys who fell off - both big beefy grinders) are going to be in for a bit of a ribbing!
The question he dodged was "would Oracle have popped back out?" We all know we designed a boat with a lot more volume in the bow for just such an occasion and the design team earnt their money this morning.
It was a bit of a shock, but on the other hand we've now seen we can bury the bow and survive. Oracle's team have buried the bow and not survived. That must play on anybodies mind.
And now Trevor's theory....
Having tried on many occasions to do full carving on the plane gybes on a windsurfer I know it's easier to pull them off with speed. The same on my Blokart if you are scared and go into the bear away with too little speed then you can get caught just like the team did today. So where they too slow into the turn because they had buttoned off?
So no Richard I think if the Italians had been racing we would not have had the "holy f&&k moment"
The LV Cup is being carried live on COZI-TV in the Bay Area, 11-2 if you use an antenna like me. I do not know if cable carries COZI. I am a news junkie, you get way better news with an antenna vs. cable, check out MHZ-world. Since they have switched to digital signals, antennas work better. I get a better picture with an antenna then I did with cable and the news is not as severely censored. We do not watch network anymore. We get almost all entertainment with Netflix. We can not stand watching commercials.
There was a 3 minute clip on AC-You Tube showing Oracle running with New Zealand on the AC course. They looked pretty evenly matched for boat speed.
Race 2, what is going on? New Zealand lost control of their foils after having a commanding lead for 3/4ths of the race. They appear to be sailing again.
Who forgot to put the batteries on charge? He'll cop it worse than the guys whho fell off. Unless of course decelerating 30 knots in a split second damaged something?
No clean sweep, though it should have happened racing Artemis, that would have been a natural justice.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
ETNZ is clearly superior when functioning. There is a saying that you should never buy a car that has been submerged. Does the same go for AC 72's? Maybe it is good this happened now, pre-Oracle.
Another day, another broken boat. And now for a dumb question. When they are turning the wheel to steer the AC 72's, what is moving, the wing or the rudders? The obvious are the rudders, but they keep saying they are fixed. They sure do not seem to be moving. If they are, they are not moving much.
The rudder: Good question, when they say "fixed" they mean fixed in one axis i.e. they rotate just like you expect. By how much - sorry no idea "enough to steer" is probably the closest I can get.
What they don't do is move like the main board centre board which go up and down (they have to that's the rules you must raise the board nearest the wind) as well as fore and aft, which controls the nose up/down function and helps keep the boat level.
Videos of both teams (Oracle and ETNZ) looking like they are foiling (or at least planing) up wind.
Today we almost had a race. A great tactical start with Dean pushing hard from behind (he never quite got the hook) and LR looking like they were keeping up although they are not sailing as deep (they sail a longer distance to the bottom mark).
The AC 72's have 2 steering wheels. Does each wheel control both rudders, or does the wheel only turn the rudder directly below or opposite? that would explain the apparent lack of motion.
The SF Chronicle's Thursday AC update interviewed the Luna Rosa skipper. He had some enlightened insight, ETNZ has a faster boat. Stand by for more breaking news.
The LV Cup continues Friday with 1 race. The race will be televised live on COZI in the Bay Area.
"The International Jury has effectively decided there is a case to answer under Rule 69...gross misconduct and bringing the sport into disrepute...and Rule 60, the so-called Dalton clause aimed at stopping people bagging the event."
Just caught up with the coverage of race7. ETNZ surely would have had the LV Cup in the bag if the second race was able to be run. There is no doubt that the Kiwis have the better boat and sharper team. Most noticeable on upwind legs where they are sailing much higher and by several degrees without any apparent loss of speed. The foiling gybes are something to behold, rounding marks at 40 knots looking like a drift racecar! And they are at last consistently foiling and tacking upwind. I am struggling to get my head around the velocities these things are doing - todays max was 47 knots, almost twice the quickest I have ever done on a race multihull, and would have been an outright sailing speed record only a few years ago. Wow
The AC 72's have 2 steering wheels. Does each wheel control both rudders, or does the wheel only turn the rudder directly below or opposite? that would explain the apparent lack of motion.
Stephen
I'd be very surprised if they didn't work on both rudders - all the cats I've sailed use both. On the other hand AC technology is full of surprises.
The apparent lack of motion I think is because there isn't a lot of motion. Essentially any movement of the rudder has the effect of acting as a brake, so you want to steer as little as possible. Smooth is fast - just like motorcycling.
Grammar: The difference between knowing your shit, and knowing you're shit.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
Well played both!!!
Trevor, you are just going to have to stay calm and collected for the next few weeks, stay off the piss and concentrate on sending out those telepathic messages to the Team. Do that, and I'll even forgive y'all for the Bledisloe.
The last LV heat was a dream, smooth as silk roundings and boatspeeds still 2Xwind on all points, even in the lighter parts of the race. Bring on The Race!
Waterfront Auckland is exploring six waterfront locations in the event Team New Zealand win the America's Cup and bring the Auld Mug back to the City of Sails. The council body has started thinking about where the team compounds and a race village would be with an eye to triggering some new development.
Apart from locating the race village at Queens Wharf - party central for the Rugby World Cup - the other five sites would require significant work and financial investment.
They include building a new marina within Westhaven marina, a sheltered compound at the tip of Wynyard Quarter, Wynyard Wharf, a wharf extension to Halsey St and Captain Cook Wharf.
The Viaduct Harbour, which hosted Team New Zealand and racing syndicates for the 2000 and 2003 defences of the Cup, has no space for syndicates. Even the Team New Zealand base, off Halsey St, is earmarked for a hotel development.
Just watched races 7 and 8. They said Luna Rosa has agreed to help New Zealand prepare for the AC in September. New Zealand should spot them 3 minutes at the start and try to catch and pass Luna Rosa. At any rate congratulations to both teams.
The SF Chronicle said today that the decision on the scandal should be in this weekend.
On the 34th AC-you tube site, watch the practice race between Oracle 1 and 2. The one that lasts 40 minutes and 2 seconds was the best racing yet. Very lite winds.
Just watched races 7 and 8. They said Luna Rosa has agreed to help New Zealand prepare for the AC in September. New Zealand should spot them 3 minutes at the start and try to catch and pass Luna Rosa.
Stephen
Yep stuff like that.
First off put LR out of compliance (i.e. make it faster by changing it so it would not comply with the rules).
Then let them get in front and work out how to overtake them.
Grant Dalton has already said all this....
The only race Team NZ lost in San Diego was against the Aussies and they had a slow boat (we beat them easily in other races).
They got in the lead and then sailed brilliantly (real match racing) using the rules to keep us behind them. A must watch race for anybody who wants to learn how the match race.
BTW: Why I don't like the current side show. It's not match racing.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
So Trev, What tub will NZ specify next time around?
'Match' racing is pretty boring, unless the contestants are evenly matched. It would be nice to see more challengers, so a more affordable tub would be good. Having said that, they won't want to slow it down now.
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
Baited breath for the decision this weekend. I'm fairly sure it will be, bah. I hope ETNZ smoke Oracle. Then we can have a lovely time of it down this side of the planet....
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
The SF Chronicle had nothing concerning the AC today. There has been speculation that Oracle might be docked a couple of races in the finals. They do not speculate that ETNZ will be handed the AC without racing. I expect to find out this weekend.
So Trev, What tub will NZ specify next time around?
'Match' racing is pretty boring, unless the contestants are evenly matched. It would be nice to see more challengers, so a more affordable tub would be good. Having said that, they won't want to slow it down now.
The America's Cup needs to go back to real boats. There are plenty of other cat series out there, http://www.catsailingnews.com/ personally I'm not convinced the Cup has to stay in cats.
My changes.
1. Re-instate the dial-up 5min start to windward.
2. Re-instate the nationality rules. Lets face it it's only us from ANZ are actually sailing the dam things. The only thing American about Oracle USA is Larry.
AND you will find http://www.catsailingnews.com/2013/0...by-design.html which shows the two AC72 cats designs. We've always know we've made a boat that works in higher winds because we had to win the LV Cup (before we knew there was no challengers). OUSA have made a boat designed for the lighter winds expected in Sept. If it's windy we will kick their arse. In light winds - not so sure.....
8am August 27th (NZ Time) is in my cal. I'll be glued to the TV
Yes to 18s. Extreemly fast tactical racing. Love it..
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
Hang on a minute. The whole premise and concept of the America's Cup contest is contained in the original Deed of Gift. It has always been about spectacle, ego, privilege and theoretically national pride through match racing between two boats, one Defender, one Challenger. If we start turning it into just another fleet racing world championship in "affordable" craft, then the whole point is lost. We need the America's Cup to stay at the pinnacle of excess, how else are we mere mortals going to reap a vicarious dividend from the squillionaires beating on each other in this show? The AC 72's are no less outrageous now than say, the J boats of the last century were in their time, and probably have more to offer the sailing public in terms of technology transfer. Already foils are finding their way into mono classes - (Lasers,WTF?)
So you are working on converting the cat in the yard to foil as we speak Ian?
I take some of what you say, as a bit tongue in cheek, but the AC is as you say meant to be the best of the best, if you have to ask how much, you are in the wrong game.
The LV Cup should have a few more than 3 boats though and would then be more interesting to a wider audience, as I say I have not heard of the LV or the AC on the news. If Australia were contesting it would be a different story..... hmmm
Perhaps the Kiwis should have built a few more 72's then we might have a hand me down too..
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
There is nothing in today's SF Chronicle concerning the AC. It was reported yesterday, on local TV, that the committee that will decide Oracle's fate met Thursday.
[QUOTE=richarde1605;1036474]So you are working on converting the cat in the yard to foil as we speak Ian?
Funny you mention that, Rich. My boards are already built, and the boat doesn't have the power to weight grunt for it ever fly on foils, but we are looking at end plate additions to the boards to help out with lift losses from end vortex generation as the boards are relatively low aspect ratio compared with anything in the AC camp. Started the second stage of laying up the carbon mast yesterday, a bit more nervewracking than farkling an F bike, I can tell you! So far, so good, no disasters, but it is scary seeing a goodly part of my superannuation lying there in one 12.8 M. length....
Great to hear the lounge room is getting cleared out. Has it been this thread that has motivated you to this activity?
Any estimate of the top speed?
Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some
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