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  1. #1
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    If you haven't checked out the America's Cup racing, do. I am watching on You Tube. Look for "Louis Vuitton" Cup. I watched race 1 which was New Zealand Racing against no competition. The boat was flying out of the water most of the time. They had one of those rubber boats with 4 300 HP motors that was struggling to keep up. I believe New Zealand hit 45 knots in a later race. At least watch 1 race to see these boats. The race officials were in a cigarette boat having trouble keeping up.

    Stephen
    Last edited by stephen; 07-18-13 at 07:19 PM.

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    Melbourne, Australia IanA is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    Thanks for bringing the AC to the member's notice, Stephen. This going to be one sailing event that will never be accused of being as exciting as watching paint dry or grass growing! As Stig knows, I have more than a passing acquaintance with large multihull design and racing, so I can hardly wait for the series to get into its stride. The Louis Vuitton Cup is the name of the series of races staged to establish which team is going to be the challenger to race against the current Americas Cup holder, in the actual final AC competition. These 72 ' catamarans are without doubt the most technically advanced and exciting racing sailing craft ever seen. Watching them approach each other(all AC races are one-on-one) at closing speeds of over 100 Km/Hr, poised on just a few sq.ft. of foil area, is way more exciting than any F1 procession, almost better than a Rossi/Stoner joust. If you get any kind of buzz from the dynamics of motorcycling, see what these guys are up to in another field entirely, you will be amazed.
    www.sailinganarchy.com is a pretty good site to check it all out as it progresses. Lively forum too, not unlike this one.
    (sorry, perhaps I'll have a little nap now)

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    The real show is when we go up against Oracle in Sept.

    Team NZ against Prada was a laugh, no suprises when they are effectively sailing our old boat.

    Looks like Armatis will be a no show.

    If Oracle can't do foil to foil gybes then the next cup we will back down here and we can get back to real sailing and not this circus.

    It's still exciting but as Grant Dalton said when you have a fundamental change of boats one team gets it really right and just makes the other team look slow. That's how we won in in 1994 and mounted the first successful defence. Then everybody else caught up (oh and having all our best sailors helped).

    If we could have kept foiling secret (very hard when you are out in the Auckland Harbour every day) then it would have been very boring.

    Look at Prada's last race officially it should have been called off as they were so slow because there was not enough wind to get up on the foils.

    TVNZ have a great site BTW. Not sure if those outside NZ can watch.


    Stay tuned in Sept it will be a lot more interesting.....
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  9. #4
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    "34th America's Cup-YouTube" is carrying the racing so far. The America's Cup has usually come down to who has the fastest boat. There was a final that went 7 races that I remember. I do not remember if Australia or New Zealand was the American opponent. Nor do I remember the victor or local. There is no way of telling how fast Oracle is until the finals. These boats are amazing and beautiful. I live on SF Bay and intend going to at least 1 race. The start line is just off of the Golden Gate Bridge which is a short walk from Baker Beach. The finish line is up near Pier 37 or 39. Hope to see you there. My son also has friends with sail boats who have said they would take me out. Can not wait. Artemis is based in Alameda where I live. I have not been down to the old Navy base to check them out. They should have there new boat in the water in a couple of weeks. At that point, I will cycle down with my camera and try for a good close up.

    Stephen

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    Melbourne, Australia IanA is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    Trev., I wouldn't write Artemis off just yet. They have completed their structural testing on the new boat and hope to have it rigged and ready by next week. Agree that Team NZ looked way superior to Prada on the the most recent outing, but.... anything can happen with these things, there is so little margin of error.
    Stephen, I am so bloody jealous- don't you dare come back without a bag of pix!
    IanA

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    Ian

    You trying to say I'm a bit biased with "when we race Oracle"

    Artemis went up against Oracle a few weeks back and their original design was non foiling because they thought it would not make much difference. Oracle smoked them so they quickly tried to change their boat to foil and we know the tragic results of that. Paul is a great sailor I went out on his round the world boat a few years ago when my then employer Sun Microsystems sponsored them, but these things are a combination of man and machine.

    Unfortunately they just have had no time on the water, it takes months not weeks to learn how to sail these things and everything is new to them. Silly things, just like my Blokart, even downwind you are actually sailing upwind and trim much more close hauled than anything else I've or them have ever sailed. It's taken me about 3 years to learn to sail and be in the top 4-5 in the world. I would love them to be competitive, it will make things more exciting, but would you bet on them at the TAB?

    Artemis clearly have problems otherwise we would have had the "37 safety changes" bullshit that they and Oracle wanted.

    And to those who have not been following this for months 3 days before the start Oracle tried to change the design rules. A bit like Ferrari trying to change the F1 rules days before the first race.
    More:-
    http://tvnz.co.nz/americas-cup-news/...rebuff-5506814
    http://tvnz.co.nz/sailing-news/team-...hanges-5453339


    All I need to do now is convince HP (my current employer) that there is some compulsory training I need to do in Sept in Silicon Valley
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    Mini IOR 22 foot, internal ballast, whack in the keel.... The technology in any AC boat is incredible, not hard to see why they partner with tech companies..



    It's a long way from this Upstart, or maybe not
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

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    Melbourne, Australia IanA is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	59649This is the Multi I designed and started building quite a few years ago and still haven't finished. The freestanding wingmast is still boxes of carbon fibre on my loungeroom floor. I should be sailing it now but I started messin' with an F800 and you know... the attention wanders....
    yeah, it is easier to go sailing on other guy's boats than finish your own.

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    [QUOTE=trevor;985258]Ian

    You trying to say I'm a bit biased with "when we race Oracle"

    .Of course not, Trev! Not much point in being biased nationwise this time round, is there? Not when the majority of the rockstars in any of the teams are either Kiwis or Aussies. Orta be called the Antipodes Cup, I reckon.

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    Finish it you lazy bastard, seventy and not getting younger
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    Your own design on the water, happy 80, got to be done by then
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  23. #12
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    I wish Alinghi was here. I loved a landlocked country holding the Cup. They have been proven to be great sailors. I hear even the Brits might field a boat next time. Considering their history, I can not believe they do not step up. As important as the sailors are to a successful campaign, the engineers are the true stars. They are saying that the 72's are to big and dangerous. Do the smaller vessels foil? To me that is what is most exciting.

    What do you prefer, the Cats or the traditional sailboats? How do you feel about the amphitheater racing or do you prefer the open ocean racing?

    The island you see the racers pass in the Bay is Alcatraz, a famous prison of the past. It is currently part of the National Park system, I believe. It is a must see tourist attraction when in the Bay area. Tickets are expensive and hard to get, usually requiring a reservation. That looks like the perfect spot for viewing the action.

    Stephen
    Last edited by stephen; 07-20-13 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanA View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMAG0068.jpg 
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ID:	59649This is the Multi I designed and started building quite a few years ago and still haven't finished. The freestanding wingmast is still boxes of carbon fibre on my loungeroom floor. I should be sailing it now but I started messin' with an F800 and you know... the attention wanders....
    yeah, it is easier to go sailing on other guy's boats than finish your own.
    That looks very sporty, free standing rigs are very clean..
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

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  26. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    I wish Alinghi was here. I loved a landlocked country holding the Cup. They have been proven to be great sailors.
    Sorry Bullshit not a single Swiss on the boat. Most of their team were ex TeamNZ. That's still true today most of the team members are from Aussie in thye Oracle team and it's run by Sir Russel Coutts a kiwi (who we knighted for winning it and retaining it and then winning it even if he was steering a "Swiss boat").

    The "Swedish" team is run by Paul Cayard who probably has never been to Sweden, only Prada I believe has a majority (like NZ) of their countries nationals on the boat.

    The nationality rule was removed many cups ago, teams are free to employee whoever they like and as Ian said most of the worlds best sailors (perhaps with the exception of Ben and a few others from the UK including poor old Andrew Simpson (RIP) ) are from Aus. or NZ.

    Alinghi being Swiss was a badge of convenience like ships registered in Panama.
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    You seem to be all over this sailing thing Trevor..
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    stephen, check out http://www.mach2boats.com/ about 30kg and fly.
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    What do you prefer, the Cats or the traditional sailboats? How do you feel about the amphitheater racing or do you prefer the open ocean racing?
    Stephen
    I prefer match racing because that is what the Americas Cup is (reember it's not started yet we are in the challenger series. The Americas Cup will be sudden death firat to five wins (unless they've changed that as well).

    This circus is not match racing.

    No real "pre-start" (although Dean showed that even with these boats you can win a pre-start - fantastic sailing). I don't think we will see a great tacking dual like when Australia beat Team NZ in San Diego with a slower boats (Team NZ's only loss in the who regatta). Now that was interesting sailing. Or when I believe Alinghi sailed Prada all round the Haraki Gulf past the top mark, now for me that's great sailing.

    Don't get me wrong some things like the boundary and being inshore may be a good thing, but they've tried to turn sailing into a stadium event for TV and failed, even Russell Coutts has admitted that. Just look at the AC45's now that is exciting to watch with 15 teams on a course with room for only five. But even in the "match racing" in the AC45's there has been very little true match racing. Win the start keep a loose cover on the boat behind and win, the boundary is actually a hindrance in match racing, the following boat can't take a punt and break the cover.

    Imagine if these guys could push each other around Alcatraz now that would be a great tactical battle! Or they could go right over to the other side of the Harbour out of the tide and find a windshift in their favour (or not).

    The boats - personally I don't care the AC72's are very clever and exciting to watch, but the racing will be boring. Whoever wins the start and gets clean air and gets around mark 1 first will win the race. Dean is hitting the line on time and at max speed. If James can do the same the Americas Cup might be interesting......

    The difference is a it like drag racing compared to MotoGP or Superbikes. One is an interesting contest around a course where each race is different and exciting, the other gets boring after a while, you've seen one race you've seen them all.
    What's it like to bike around NZ? https://picasaweb.google.com/1043074...59485/BikeTrip 

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    Quote Originally Posted by richarde1605 View Post
    You seem to be all over this sailing thing Trevor..
    I'll be wearing my lucky read socks

    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/7156/red-socks

    "Peter Blake’s wife Pippa gave him a different pair of socks for each yachting campaign, for good luck. For the 1995 America’s Cup campaign in San Diego, the socks were red, and every time the New Zealand yacht Black Magic went on the water, Blake would wear them. On one occasion he was injured, there were no red socks on board, and for the only time in the 1995 campaign the black boat lost. The team started to wear red socks – and continued to win. In support of the challenge, many New Zealanders wore red socks, from the prime minister to bus drivers."
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarde1605 View Post
    stephen, check out http://www.mach2boats.com/ about 30kg and fly.
    I love watching these guys if I ever get a weekend in Sydney! I think Aussie is the only place that allows Moths to foil but I might be wrong. Never seen any out on the Gulf in the numbers you see in Syd.

    Anyway time to go race sailing (on the land for me now).

    TTFN
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    Those Mach 2 Boats are incredible. That looks like incredible fun. Any idea how much they go for? What speeds do they reach?

    I was aware that most of the participants on all teams were from down under. Do you know if that goes for design and engineering also?

    ESPN is not carrying the sailing. Keep in mind that they carry tournament poker in addition to other non sports. You have to love the USA.

    Stephen

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    On the Mach page there is one foiling past Alcatraz. Top speeds over 30kts high 50s mph around $17,000 Aus

    http://www.mothmart.com/ click on foiling moth button
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

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    Been on the same bit of land as Greenbird. He was at Ivanpath setting up for a go at the record the week after our Blokart World champs last year. http://www.greenbird.co.uk/land-record/the-location

    Made our 50-70 kph look like we were standing still

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    I was aware that most of the participants on all teams were from down under. Do you know if that goes for design and engineering also?
    Stephen
    Yep!

    Oracle's wing is made in Auckland, one reason it took so long to replace after their little mishap

    Team NZ gave Prada the design for their first boat to them (why they should not be any real competition) like Orcale we have two. Unlike Oracle we don't have enough money to have both on the water at the same time.

    More boring (or if you are like me a sailing nut interesting) details here:- http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-c...catamarans.php
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    Interesting a not my kiwi biased opinion

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...96H16D20130718



    New Zealand boat builders were among the first to work with the high-strength composite materials that are now standard for racing boats. They made a name for themselves as some of the world's top designers, said Tim Smyth, a construction manager at the Oracle team's boat-building arm, Core Builders Composites, which built Oracle's two AC72 catamarans.


    In New Zealand, Core Builders Composites also built 15 smaller AC45 catamarans that teams raced over the past two years to prepare for the America's Cup.


    New Zealand's government has kicked in around $30 million for this year's Cup campaign. The team also helped finance its Cup bid by selling a boat design to Luna Rossa, while corporate sponsors, led by Emirates Airlines, contributed the balance of a budget estimated at around $100 million.
    What's it like to bike around NZ? https://picasaweb.google.com/1043074...59485/BikeTrip 

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    The most amazing thing to me is the incredible forces involved, I think an AC72 weighs about 6,000kg, quite a lot for two skinny little legs.. Where an International Moth at 30kg seems a trinket. I don't know the current Portsmouth numbers for handicapping, but I think the foiling moths are one of the fastest 'potential' craft..

    No Trevor I'm not bored by the sail thing, as a matter of fact I have just applied for Blokart membership, directly as a result of this thread, (thanks stephen, IanA and Trevor). No Blokart clubs in NSW, bugger, have to go to Victoria.

    Buying Red Socks......
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    There is an interview with Russell Coutts in todays SF Chronicle. He says that the cost of the boat is about 8% of the overall budget. The rest is support expenses. By reducing the size of the cats to 50s the support costs drop dramatically. He claims the goal is to bring future costs down to encourage more participation, and a larger global TV market. This will probably be the only competition with the 72s.

    I am not a sailor obviously. I don't know what to ask you guys to get more information out. I assume that the wing and foil design is what separates the fast from the extremely fast. You guys are great, keep feeding information.

    Stephen

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    Q: what does the the jib do on an AC72?

    A: Seems to slow you down

    744m in the lead with one less sail, just the last reach and short trip to the line

    Will be interesting to see if Prada gets within the 5min threshold.

    Stephen: Glad we are not boring you, it's exciting stuff I just wish I could watch it live and not over the "intermittent net"

    Lead at gate 5: 1:56

    Off to work.......

    Most of Akld. will be late, Wellington even later, they are clearing up after the shake. I cancelled my trip to Wellington this morning whilst at the airport. Just checking on friends....
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    I watched the Luna Rosa-New Zealand race today. New Zealand lost the foresail on the first up-wind run, and then proceeded to dust Luna Rosa. The scary part was that Luna Rosa sailed a pretty nice race, no mistakes. In basketball you can not teach height. In sailing you can not teach speed. The boat is fast or it isn't.

    Stephen

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  53. #30
    Melbourne, Australia IanA is offline F800Riders.org Supporter
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    Trevor, All competitive Moths are foilers these days. Check out this action at last years Worlds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK60RZDtnT8 The first to master foil Moth sailing was Rohan Veal, a Melbourne fella. He dominated the world Moth scene for a couple of years but I haven't seen him around for some time. The Moth hulls alone are only about 10Kg, pretty much just a structural element to keep all the other bits in place, they sure don't sail so well when they flop back down from way up there...
    I bought a pair of Peter Blake Lucky Red Socks at Auckland Airport way back then. Never got around to wearing them in competition(I'll try anything), and of course couldn't bring myself to wear them after he was sadly killed by pirates.
    Stephen..... Pictures, man!!!!

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  55. #31
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    You have to admit they look a lot like moths, and yes Ian, they pretty much stop when not on the foil. Very close tactical racing with great skills to keep it all balanced and flying, the gybing is to die for. I haven't done much sailing, but love the idea. I used to watch the 18 footers on telly, also very close racing with a lot more power in the boat.
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    And for old school non foil sailing, check these 18 footer's out, especially the amount of sail they carry on an 18 foot waterline. Huge power for about an 180kg skiff, blows me away....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJS9hSVwBsc
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    Watched the 18 footers in Auckland harbour in a real blow. The pro series that use to go around ANZ.

    Total carnage!

    Ian didn't realize all moths now foiled. We had a moth sailor in my club in the UK when i use to race windsurfers. Although he did more swimming than sailing. When I got to NZ they had the NZ moth which was quite different wider and flat bottomed.

    When they changed the Olympic board again I looked at the cost of an RSX and bought two 2nd hand Blokarts (one or me one for my son) and became a land sailor. Of course they only lasted a year and then we got new stuff and the racing bug bit and the cheap sport got a bit more expensive, but still cheaper than Windsurfing.

    Just bought a new quiver of sails ready for the next World Champs near Perth in Feb. 2014

    Richard check it out:- http://blokartworlds.com/ and enter, you will have a ball we are still a new and young sports so most are still in for the fun, and what other sport can you race the guy who invented them. The social side for us is just as important than the racing we are all really old farts who don't like getting wet Although we have a few young guns coming through, but they tend to not sail in the 95+ kg division or as we say "the old fat b'stard division"

    TTFN
    ,
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  59. #34
    richarde1605's Avatar
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    Trev, NZ Moth class doesn't foil because you are all tight b'stards, and would rather build it yourself in the laundry than actually BUY one... sorry

    Sadly no Blokarts for sale used in my area, Australia, but I plan to go down to Vic and have a play to see if it scratches the itch. I also have a voucher for a Training Instructional Flight in a glider, tug to 4,000 ft, then enjoy the slide down. It has been quite a few years since I last flew in a sailplane, so very excited, love planes.

    All I need now is another hobby, wish one would come past.......hmmm....

    I might have to put on a couple of kegs to qualify for the fun class...
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  61. #35
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    Why is the sustained wind speed set at 20 Knots or Mph. Was that the race officials or the US Coast Guard? How fast can these boats go safely? Was this determined before the boats were designed? Is there an upper limit on wind speed for the AC 72's?

    How big can the waves be before the AC 72's are in danger? I am sure that wind and wave size are tied together.

    Stephen
    Last edited by stephen; 07-22-13 at 05:33 PM.

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    Originally the max wind speed was more than 20 knots, I "think" it was 30, but to be honest most teams would struggle to step the wing in those conditions. (sorry step is sailing speak for put on the boat). See the picture I took the first day Team NZ tried it. Imagine moving that around in a 30 knot wind!. I can see their base from my office.

    We built a boat for the wind speeds you get in the bay this time of year, come September they may be lighter we could be at a disadvantage.

    The limit was lowered as part of the "37 safety changes" after the failure of Artemis and the death of Andrew Simpson. Nobody opposed that.

    Team NZ out on the gulf down here have sailed right up to the old 30 knot limit in testing and beyond (remember it is sustained over 5mins - gusts can be much stronger)

    The answer to you qustion is f'ing fast

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ETNZ: Our 'Secret Weapon' revealed



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCWa9CKG5Pc






    You can see they can foil in much lighter winds (notice two headsails):- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Ki41ToqtU



    when we first saw these photos everybody thought "photoshop"






    Why I don't think we will loose to Prada. We've raced them a lot


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9S_FhQrMqk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVBaou7HGM
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  66. #38
    Cascade Locks, Oregon, US Roadpizza is offline Volunteer Moderator - Global
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    I have one of those machines set up in my living room. Ahhhh..

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    What an AC72 - gee your living room must have a high stud height
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    Cascade Locks, Oregon, US Roadpizza is offline Volunteer Moderator - Global
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadpizza View Post
    I have one of thoseNESPRESSO machines set up in my living room. Ahhhh..

    My living room doesn't but, I do.

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  72. #41
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    Calm down RP have some java....

    no need to yell I gots no coffee yet
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    Artemis put their boat in the water yesterday. The wing is installed but the rigging needs fine tuning. They should be out on the water soon sailing. Check "34th America's Cup-YouTube" to see the boat.

    I hope that after the AC, the teams will try to raise the bar on the world speed record. I am curious what speeds team New Zealand reached in thirty plus knot winds.

    Heading down to the navel base with my camera to see if Artemis is viewable. Still haven't been to a live race but discussed it with my better half this morning. She wants to go soon.

    Just got back from the Artemis camp. The AC 72 was no where to be seen. I suspect it was on the Bay. I suspect I need to be there at 9 AM to see the boat. You can get within a couple of hundred yards of their facility with clear line of sight.

    Do these teams pull the boats out of the water every night? Do they have to pull the masts and wing? The Artemis facility was small, not large enough for a rigged boat. They had a huge crane on sight.

    Just watched today's race on You Tube. I can not wait for another contender. Are we to go the entire regatta without seeing a change of lead in a race. I wish Luna Rosa would take New Zealand off the line so we could see a pass. Maybe New Zealand could spot them a couple of minutes to make it interesting.


    Stephen
    Last edited by stephen; 07-23-13 at 10:33 PM.

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    Stephen

    Yes they take the wing off every night and pull the hull out the water (with the bloody great crane you can see) and over night they will check and tighten everything

    BTW: We've stopped all coffee privileges to the guy who checks jib halliard fittings

    The head of Prada apparently (according the commentary I heard the other day) has bought over the guy who polishes his vintage cars to polish the boat. It might not be fast but it is sure pretty.

    Big story down here is we will keep racing. Why? All this crushing of Prada is actually getting in the way of the development programme. Team NZ is learning nothing and Oracle is racing against a real competitor and getting faster (their second boat). So you might have seen the last race from Team NZ until the semi finals. Artemis and Prada (I know I should call then Luna Rossa) might be racing for second.

    We might come and crush Artemis but why bother they will be slower than Prada (remember they've been sailing for weeks and are getting faster, we've just getting faster at a faster rate than them).

    It also looks like they still have a wave piecing bow still (it looks like it has a lot less bow volume than anybody else). If they get things wrong the wing will just drive that into the water and we know what happened last time I really hope they don't hurt somebody else. It just looks flimsy http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images...ter_Master.jpg http://tvnz.co.nz/americas-cup-news/...g-blue-5516996

    Worth a read: http://tvnz.co.nz/americas-cup/marti...oracle-5518357
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    Is the mast position fixed, or can they adjust it by adjusting tensions on the support lines? For that matter do they even have support lines? Is the wing and mast just dropped in or there bolts holding it to the frame? What goes into trimming one of these beasts? Is it different foils and Dagger boards, the rear boards. What are they trying to adjust? New Zealand seems to be foiling dead level.

    I haven't seen Oracle racing. Do you get that coverage?

    Stephen

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    OK Oracle aren't racing anybody but themselves because they have two boats. When we won first time round in San Diego we got faster by racing our two boats against each other. You make a change on one boat and then see if makes things better or worse against a boat you know. Crushing Prada is teaching us nothing. Did we beat them by 7 minutes because we did something that made us faster, or did they do something that made them slower? You can't do like you would in say timing a bike around a track because the wind (the engine) is different every day and the surface of the track is moving (the tide).

    And yes they have stays on the wing (look at the picture above you can see them). If the front stay had failed the other day when we lost the jib you would have seen us stop and hope like hell we did not loose the wing. One of the "problems" with these things is if it crashes or has some other serious problem it's game over (unless like Oracle you have two boats).

    Trimming? that's what the grinders are doing. You will see we don't trim the jib it just runs in a track at the front of the wing. A bit of a clue it don't do much. So some of the winches are trimming the wing, all the other winches are trimming the dagger boards (up/down & forward/back). How? secret. You can't trim the rudder that's against the rules. One rule Oracle wanted to change - it's much easier to get the boat trimmed (level) if you can control the rudder.

    Next real race is Sunday (your time).

    You might also find this graphic interesting you can see why it's so popular in Aus and NZ. And spot the Swede on the "Swedish boat"

    http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...CupGraphic.jpg



    BTW: Off to Singapore next week for work you might have to wait a bit longer for my daily updates

    I really glad you are enjoying it. What any sport needs is new peopel wtaching it.

    TTFN
    Trevor
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    Oh missed a question. On these things they don't change the tension on the wing stays.

    We caused a stir a few cups back because we removed the back stays (top of mast to the stern/back of boat) during the down wind legs as they are not needed then (surprising but true) to reduce drag (or to confuse the opposition so they don't focus on what's really going on) \.

    Oh and just watching the news tonight looks like Armetis is up and foiling, but we will have to wait until next month to see how fast...
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    we removed the back stays (top of mast to the stern/back of boat) during the down wind legs as they are not needed then (surprising but true)

    How does that work? Is the centre of pressure lowered and focused into the foot and top mount? Or the twisting off of the top, relative to the apparent wind unload it enough it actually provides drag to level thing out and reduce the risk of pitch poling in a gust? Inquiring minds want to know..
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  80. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarde1605 View Post
    we removed the back stays (top of mast to the stern/back of boat) during the down wind legs as they are not needed then (surprising but true)

    How does that work? Is the centre of pressure lowered and focused into the foot and top mount? Or the twisting off of the top, relative to the apparent wind unload it enough it actually provides drag to level thing out and reduce the risk of pitch poling in a gust? Inquiring minds want to know..
    Thinking about it, if stays are slack the sail can fill more, I would imagine a fair proportion spills down, lifting the boat and reducing hull drag, and most of the load is at the bottom of the mast, centre of pressure lowered. and more stability as the centre of force on the hull is also further forward, pulling the boat more than pushing it, less rudder, less drag..
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

  81. #49
    richarde1605's Avatar
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    Apparent wind, drag. The boat is moving faster than wind speed, net force is towards the stern, that's just crazy..
    Current rides 2011 grey, grey, black f800st hamburger with the lot + leo vince slip on, Intiminators, M shock, led tailight, bmc air filter, F800Ridrers.org sticker, 2007 blue f800st R.I.P. since bought back. sport panniers top box, k100rs, xr400, can-am400, c71 honda, xr100, xs650 and some 

  82. #50
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    Sorry about the late posting. Just got back from 2 days up the coast in Sea Ranch, CA. It dawned on me last night, during a lifetime battle with insomnia, that the Prada boat is not balanced properly. Could the mast and wing be too far forwards pulling the nose down when foiling? If so, would New Zealand have known this when they sold Luna Rosa the boat?

    Also, the crews of the campaigns being mostly from New Zealand and Australia, are they pretty much inter-changeable? That applies to the skippers also.

    It is going to take a couple of days to consider the information on trimming these cats.

    As an amusing side-bar, apparently an African country has filed a lawsuit to delay the finals. They filed for and were denied entry into the America's Cup field. I suppose if the country in question were Somalia, well known sea farers much discussed in recent years, they might have a legitimate argument. The country in question is trying to start a sailing program for its youth.

    Stephen

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