The TV news has switched from stories of people who are sick to stories of people who are hungry and are lining up at food banks because they have lost their jobs and income. They are also featuring stories of merchants who are thinking up ways of beating the health officer business closure rules so that they can open their stores to the walk-in public. Last night they interviewed an enthusiastic merchant in a local city who runs a comic book store (not an essential business). What he has done is to purchase a lot of TP, Clorox, disinfectant wipes and other products that are hard to come by, and has turned his comic book store into a convenience store. He says that 20% of his store is now devoted to these items and if people decide to pick up a few comic books along with their toilet paper, that is fine with him. He also said that if the cops stop by and tell him to close, he will just add more convenience store items on his shelves until the cops relent and allow him to stay open.
Very creative. But I do wonder why it is left up to the police to interpret and enforce health officer regulations? Shouldn't the county health officer's staff be doing that?
Regarding hair cuts: I cut my own hair by feel using a hair cutting kit that I bought on Amazon for only $30. Seems to have turned out OK. However, my elderly (older than me) neighbor says that he goes to the home of his barber and has his hair cut there. He paid $35 for his hair cut. Apparently, this is becoming a thing now. Barbers and hair stylists are performing their professions in the shadows by either having people visit their homes or by visiting their customers homes and cutting their hair there.
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Sounds like the Tesla self-driving option feature - the price of which is being raised to $8,000 starting next week.
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
The TV news has switched from stories of people who are sick to stories of people who are hungry and are lining up at food banks because they have lost their jobs and income. They are also featuring stories of merchants who are thinking up ways of beating the health officer business closure rules so that they can open their stores to the walk-in public. Last night they interviewed an enthusiastic merchant in a local city who runs a comic book store (not an essential business). What he has done is to purchase a lot of TP, Clorox, disinfectant wipes and other products that are hard to come by, and has turned his comic book store into a convenience store. He says that 20% of his store is now devoted to these items and if people decide to pick up a few comic books along with their toilet paper, that is fine with him. He also said that if the cops stop by and tell him to close, he will just add more convenience store items on his shelves until the cops relent and allow him to stay open.
Very creative. But I do wonder why it is left up to the police to interpret and enforce health officer regulations? Shouldn't the county health officer's staff be doing that?
Regarding hair cuts: I cut my own hair by feel using a hair cutting kit that I bought on Amazon for only $30. Seems to have turned out OK. However, my elderly (older than me) neighbor says that he goes to the home of his barber and has his hair cut there. He paid $35 for his hair cut. Apparently, this is becoming a thing now. Barbers and hair stylists are performing their professions in the shadows by either having people visit their homes or by visiting their customers homes and cutting their hair there.
Agreed. Very creative. With some of the politicians saying the lockdown won't completely end for up to 18 months, he has to find a way to survive.
My barber only charges $5.50, and only $5.00 for seniors. I suspect she'll have long lines when she opens up again. Years ago when I was on Active Duty in the USAF, I used to cut my own hair. I've done it again since the lockdowns have been in place, and I will probably do it once or twice more. I figure that'll give the lines a chance to get back to normal, and I'll find out if the virus is getting passed around in her place. She never was as clean as other places, but I also never felt like I caught anything there.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Good article. There was one part I did disagree with.
There are very few states that have demonstrated a sustained decline in numbers of new infections. Indeed, as of May 3rd the majority are still increasing and reopening.
The number of new infections, is dependent on how many are tested. More test kits are becoming available. More people are being tested. And so the numbers will go up.
What he didn't say in that comment, was how many are showing up positive and had either no symptoms or symptoms no more serious than a cold?
But that doesn't mean the rest of the article was bad. He gives some good examples of how the coronavirus has spread and some things to think about when taking your own precautions.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
What with barber shops, hair salons and nail salons being put on the opening back burner in many places, I really wonder how many of these small mom and pop operations are still going to be around when they are finally allowed to open up again? This is especially true for the staff that works in those shops and probably pay to rent their section of the facilities. And of course, the shop owners still have to pay the rent on their leased spaces. Hopefully they will be able to survive, perhaps with the help of the previous and future stimulus programs. I'll keep my fingers crossed. If they don't reopen I may be cutting my own hair for some time.
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Speaking of riding destinations (or the lack thereof): I heard on the news today that all of the beach parking lots in San Mateo County, and likely also Santa Cruz, San Francisco and Marin Counties, will remain closed for the Memorial Day weekend. However, they are considering opening up the beaches to visitors the following weekend. Hopefully that will come to pass.
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
I continue to follow the Itchy Boots videos. She has been riding around the Netherlands while she cools her heals at home waiting for the pandemic crisis to end in South America so that she can resume her trip to Alaska. I was interested to see that there were no masks in sight during her ride and that Holland uses U.S. type stop signs for traffic control. However, it is tough to tell if people are maintaining social distancing from her short ride. She did say that most restaurants were closed for indoor dining, just takeout. The weather certainly looked nice, as did the many old windmills that were used for pumping water out of the land that are enclosed by the dikes and were used to reclaim much of the country's land area from the ocean. Very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbeeIBobr0U
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
Good article. There was one part I did disagree with.
The number of new infections, is dependent on how many are tested. More test kits are becoming available. More people are being tested. And so the numbers will go up.
What he didn't say in that comment, was how many are showing up positive and had either no symptoms or symptoms no more serious than a cold?
But that doesn't mean the rest of the article was bad. He gives some good examples of how the coronavirus has spread and some things to think about when taking your own precautions.
Chris
With tears in my eyes please tell me it ain't so.
Is it any wonder that America is doing so poorly when the level of analysis of COVID-19 done by regular folk is so bad.
I'm going to make this clear: SARS-CoV-2 doesn't care whether there are tests or no tests, ok?
New COVID-19 infections are the gift of SARS-CoV-2 and the people who did the wrong thing, not a gift of a test.
You said "What he didn't say in that comment, was how many are showing up positive and had either no symptoms or symptoms no more serious than a cold?"
What he DID say was "..... We know that at least 44% of all infections--and the majority of community-acquired transmissions--occur from people without any symptoms (asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people). ...."
Some folk want everyone with no symptoms or just the sniffles to be left out of the 'numbers'. They and their ilk seek opportunities to tangle up associations, correlations and causation, dang put the cart before the horse, fail to remember the Venn diagrams of youth and dang it again will do everything in their (super brain) power to avoid knowing or understanding any of this stuff. Heck, they are consistent.
Showing up positive and either having no symptoms or symptoms no more serious than a cold means that - guess what - YOU HAVE COVID-19. You got it, you can give it, you're called a 'positive'. The 'positive test' numbers rise because the infections rise. The infections don't rise because the tests increase. The tests are just a mechanism to bear witness to that facts.
The article was gurd. Real good.
In Australia we are testing more people week by week. Our new cases are getting LOWER. Lower in absolute and lower in relative terms, by definition. We down under (Kiwis likewise) tested to trace contacts and surround outbreaks and limit movement through uninfected populations. Nobody thought it was a red blue gubbyment conspiracy or a threat to re-election no matter what the result. So, as a result, we are opening it up with almost no cases.
I think I wasn't clear in what I wrote. Or maybe I was clear, and I'm just ignorant.
The USA didn't have anywhere's near enough tests. And when we got them from China, we found out later that the results weren't reliable. So there's been a problem of finding out how many people really have coronavirus.
I totally agree that if you have the virus, you have the virus. The numbers don't tell an accurate story though. In some localities, the test kits were so few that you couldn't get a test unless you had symptoms. So you showed up at the hospital with problems breathing and a high fever...and perhaps died...and now that makes the mortality rate look extremely high. Because the only people taking the test, had the virus and had a bad case of the virus. Not one of the asymptomatic cases.
Later, we've been getting more tests. We're finding that people are showing up positive...but didn't know they'd ever caught anything. Yes, they are a positive...but are they as critical as the ones who were admitted to the hospital? No. I have a friend who was feeling under the weather for about three days. He's never been tested. Did he have the virus? He has no idea. He just has a suspicion.
Until we get tests for every person in the USA (328,000,000) (and the world), and can test all those people each day...the numbers will continue to increase. Does an increase in the number of virus cases mean anything? Nope. Not at all. It only means another person was tested...and may or may not have any symptoms.
The important numbers in my estimation are how many deaths do you have? In my state, the numbers have been going down now for three weeks. Were the deaths though attributed to coronavirus? Or pneumonia, or liver failure, or stroke, or...? Even those numbers are up for interpretation. Each locale in the world has a different way of determining the cause of death.
So yes, I'll stand by the ignorant comments I made earlier. There are more important things to worry about.
I find it interesting to see the reaction to the coronavirus that different forums take. This forum seems to be along the lines of "the sky is falling and we must tell the king!" Or at least in panic mode of some sort. Three other forums that I'm on, take a more relaxed attitude. They are still getting out, just paying attention to what they are doing. Posting some nice pictures too. There's plans for getting together and enjoying life.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
I think I wasn't clear in what I wrote. Or maybe I was clear, and I'm just ignorant.
The USA didn't have anywhere's near enough tests. And when we got them from China, we found out later that the results weren't reliable. So there's been a problem of finding out how many people really have coronavirus.
I totally agree that if you have the virus, you have the virus. The numbers don't tell an accurate story though. In some localities, the test kits were so few that you couldn't get a test unless you had symptoms. So you showed up at the hospital with problems breathing and a high fever...and perhaps died...and now that makes the mortality rate look extremely high. Because the only people taking the test, had the virus and had a bad case of the virus. Not one of the asymptomatic cases.
Later, we've been getting more tests. We're finding that people are showing up positive...but didn't know they'd ever caught anything. Yes, they are a positive...but are they as critical as the ones who were admitted to the hospital? No. I have a friend who was feeling under the weather for about three days. He's never been tested. Did he have the virus? He has no idea. He just has a suspicion.
Until we get tests for every person in the USA (328,000,000) (and the world), and can test all those people each day...the numbers will continue to increase. Does an increase in the number of virus cases mean anything? Nope. Not at all. It only means another person was tested...and may or may not have any symptoms.
The important numbers in my estimation are how many deaths do you have? In my state, the numbers have been going down now for three weeks. Were the deaths though attributed to coronavirus? Or pneumonia, or liver failure, or stroke, or...? Even those numbers are up for interpretation. Each locale in the world has a different way of determining the cause of death.
So yes, I'll stand by the ignorant comments I made earlier. There are more important things to worry about.
I find it interesting to see the reaction to the coronavirus that different forums take. This forum seems to be along the lines of "the sky is falling and we must tell the king!" Or at least in panic mode of some sort. Three other forums that I'm on, take a more relaxed attitude. They are still getting out, just paying attention to what they are doing. Posting some nice pictures too. There's plans for getting together and enjoying life.
Chris
Yes Chris you are ignorant. Let me roll up my sleeves.
I'll take a red pen to your crayon in roughly your post order, ok?
China's tests weren't the problem early on. They worked just fine for China. The US-made tests were the problem, good old buddy. The CDC Director Robert Redfield said that the CDC manufactured its own tests in a lab environment rather than in their manufacturing facility. Unfortunately the lab had SARS-CoV-2 inside it and that contaminated the kits. OOps. Things have been corrected and now the tests are beautiful. (Continuing to blame China sure smells like apple pie)
The numbers are important because by your own admission there has been an under reporting (have virus but not sick = may not get test). A few posts back an author wrote 44 per cent of the infected are asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic. You read that article, or at least claimed to. Conservative estimates based on the terribly insufficient US testing process point to at least 5 million people are carrying the virus inside the wall.
I'm glad you agree though, that if you have the virus you have the virus. I was about to pull my hair out but I don't have any. Thank you for that small grace.
Thankfully you also realise that people who test positive but aren't sick are less critical. Still infectious though, and that is critical to comprehend. OOOh it is subtle this corona stuff, eh? I'd suggest that your friend get tested or at least act like he is infected: quarantine, don't touch anybody and break any mirrors if he thinks he needs a haircut.
Here's a doosie. Testing 328 million cases a day will cause the numbers to rise, coz, and I don't know how to break it to you, the numbers would rise because there would be more infected people. Geddit? The numbers don't rise just because of the test. The tests just show the ACTUAL TRUTH. Sorry about yelling. So I'll just slip in your direct quote here for continuity "Does an increase in the number of virus cases mean anything? Nope. Not at all." Cheeses Kryste you cannot be that ignorant. If the freaking numbers of positive test results increase it means that there are more infected people wandering around touching stuff and saying 'Some dude said that if'n I'm not sick then the virus I have bubbling around in me don't mean nuttin'. That would make two ignorant people and now I see how ignorance spreads. The R0, remember?
The deaths are important and so is the counting of the same. But despite the proximity to the shining hope possessed of the dead, that figure is important only from a stratification point of view in this context, that is all. You see, the dead don't spread the virus (much). Pinning all of your hopes on counting the dead and only focusing on the numbers of deaths means that anyone else farther up the slippery slope of COVID-19 is missed.
Did anyone explain to you that the dead people weren't dead yesterday, just sick, and before that they were asymptomatic, but still positive and before that well, heck they were negative? Who snotted on them? So it is very, very important to find out where the asymptomatic but infected people are because they may either up and die soon or just spread the virus willy nilly. Ask yourself does that mean anything?
That's why the CDC don't want people like you running the show. Those folk are best sent to the janitor's room to get a jug of chlorox, yes? Shining light, oh shining light of hope bring forth and hit my body with a tremendous whether an ultraviolet or just very powerful light, through the skin or in some other way.
Its just occurred to me what is at the very core of your ignorance. You think that testing positive but not feeling sick means that you may have the virus but can't give the virus. Crikey.
That is my fault*. You wrote "Nope. Not at all. It only means another person was tested...and may or may not have any symptoms." And I read it in context and in its entirety and repressed my hippocampal response to yell.
I don't believe that the sky is falling in. I don't panic. I'm free to ride, go to restaurants, kick tyres at the bike shop. I'm in Oz were we seem to have fewer clueless. We do have some of those, but like a parallel version of herd immunity we have far fewer people doing the wrong thing than we do have doing the right thing. Relaxed approach. How's that workin for ya?
Enjoy and be proud of your ignorance Chris, you've worked hard at it and I can see you embrace it. Actually, I can read that by your own admission you embrace your ignorance, silly me.
*My fault for not picking up just how ignorant you are. I thought you misstyped, my bad.
I live in a COVID-19 hotspot in a country that has the second highest fatality numbers in the world. Oddly there seems to be a debate about balancing the economy against lives lost, about damage done by trying to stop the pandemic against the pandemic itself, about those who feel their right to a haircut overrides somebody else’s right not to be ill and ironically I believe those nations (and I count my own as one) that may have placed more emphasis on the economy may well have got this very wrong. Take a look at New Zealand’s handling of this (there are others Australia, Iceland). From the outset they had a “humanitarian” concept to eradicate this virus and put the health of the nation’s populous first and they appear to have managed it. Currently they have 21 deaths (last was May 6th), just let that sink in for a moment. UK has over 36,000 (although OSN suggests it may be near 55,000) US has over 97,000. It’s not by accident that New Zealand is coming out of this better than most of us in Europe because with only 104 cases and no fatalities NZ went into strict lockdown (UK had 8077 case and 508 deaths when our lock down started) when it was suggested that this was an overreaction the NZ Prime Minister responded with Italy had 104 cases once. The NZ government appears to largely have managed to maintain support from the general public probably due to actions like taking a 20% pay cut themselves to show some level of understanding as to what the rest of the nation was experiencing. And now NZ has already reopened schools and is able to safely reopen cafés and restaurants albeit with reduced numbers to maintain social distancing. The UK is looking to reopen schools for certain school ages on June 1st despite the reservations expressed by the British Medical Association and SAGE (the government’s own scientific advisory group). Our Prime Minister is boastfully proclaiming that the UK will have a world beating track and trace system in place by June 1st ready for schools reopening, they have failed the country in so many other respects it will come as no surprise many don’t believe this will happen. The economic effect of lockdown is going to be felt for a long time by all nations it will be felt least by those that understood what they were dealing with and took decisive action early. New Zealand will restart without a second wave but there is not a hope in hell that either the UK or US will, New Zealand will not have to shoulder the financial burden of 10 of thousands still ill with chronic health problems having “recovered” from COVID-19 a side effect from this pandemic that is rarely mentioned. It would appear that by putting the health of its citizen first the economy suffers less. Lock down is being lifted in New Zealand because, having the correct measure in place it is safe to do so. Lock down is being lifted in the UK because we have spare capacity in ICU. Two weeks ago my next door neighbour succumbed to this horrific disease and when I say next door neighbour I don’t mean some vague person that lives maybe in a street near me I mean the wife, mother, grandmother of the family that has lived in the property adjoining mine for over 20 years. She was unlucky an unavoidable hospital visit could not have been timed worse it is assumed that is where she became infected. In one respect she was lucky the blanket ban on hospistal visitors had been relaxed, so at her passing she did have her husband of over 60 years at her bedside, albeit bedecked in full PPE, this hospital stay was the longest they had been apart in all those years. We could not attend the funeral, close family only under lock down rules. When the funeral cortege came to collect the mourners, all neighbours stood respectfully outside their properties some dressed as we would be for attending a funeral. No shake of hands, no hugs, no embrace to offer some gesture of comfort to the bereaved. It angers me when antilock down protester describe people such as myself (I’ve obeyed the rules regards lockdown) as “cowards” hiding behind my settee scared of the slightest sniffle or runny nose. No I just have a level of humanity whilst, unlike flue, I am not 100% positive I would survive COVID-19 (nobody should be) I’m not overweight, I’m in a lower risk age group, look after myself and eat well so odds are I’d come through it but If the nation as a whole gets this virus then the likes of Margret the length and breadth this country don’t stand a chance.
If you are not convinced the New Zealand government got something right count up 21 in your head, then have a go at counting up to 20,000, 30,000 or 90,000
I don't believe that the sky is falling in. I don't panic. I'm free to ride, go to restaurants, kick tyres at the bike shop. I'm in Oz were we seem to have fewer clueless. We do have some of those, but like a parallel version of herd immunity we have far fewer people doing the wrong thing than we do have doing the right thing. Relaxed approach. How's that workin for ya?...
When I first started reading your post, I asked myself, "What's his point?" Especially in regards to whether to ride, or not ride. So was this what you were trying to say all along?
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
You have pointed out several examples where quick and sharp measures created a desirable outcome (limited health impact, minimized economic impact.)
Ironically, in my opinion, where short term thinking from business interests and ill-informed citizens superceded science, this short term thinking (i can't close! I can move about!) has had the outcome business feared the most - long term economic impact. Oh, and a whole lot fewer customers.... because they died.
At the risk of thread drift, and maybe it is too late to stop that... (Perhaps the best thing is simply to split the last several posts off to their own thread?)
...I think it is easier to point the finger at what other countries have done or not done. I shouldn't really say "countries", because it is really "people" that have made decisions that proved better or worse. I believe they made those decisions based on the best intentions and with the best information they had at the time. For any of us to say they did right or wrong, really is "monday morning quarterbacking". And if any of us personally thinks we could've done better...then why haven't we run for office so we would be making the "right" decision? The reason is that we don't want that responsibility.
Demographics has a lot to do with how many cases of the coronavirus are in that area. Even in New York state, the demographics vary widely. When I first found out I was being assigned to Griffiss AFB in Rome, NY, I was horrified. No way did I want to live in a crowded metropolis like New York City. Then I found out it was more like Vermont in "Upstate" New York. The communities are very small and it is more of rural America there. Washington State is like that too. On the left side of the state, it is far more densely populated. Cross over the Cascade mountains and it feels like you're in a totally different state. It's desert and farmland with tiny communities widely spread apart.
But that's not the entire story. Australia and New Zealand are islands. Sure England is too, but the former are isolated in the world, and the latter is just a short hop by air or water from mainland Europe. In fact, England is close enough that France was escorting migrants around the French coast to England. So even a comparison of island nations, is not valid.
A couple posts up, New Zealand was lauded for being so proactive and now having so few cases and deaths of coronavirus. Hmm... Sounds great. And the USA has been criticized continually for how bad they managed things. So when did the USA start banning flights? In January. By March 14th, the USA banned travel to and from the UK. The rest of Europe had been banned earlier. Canada and the USA closed their border on March 16th. Australia didn't close its borders till March 18th. Well after the USA, Canada and much of Europe closed their borders. So was the reason for Australia and New Zealand's low rate of infection because of their proactive response to the virus? Or does it have something to do with their isolation in the world's geography and the high cost of getting to them?
It is easy to make a black and white decision on those wanting to open the economy again. "How can you do this???!!!", they say? "People will die!" Yes they will. (Last I checked, there's only two things for sure in life...death and taxes. I wish you luck trying to escape either. )
There's a huge cost to individual people by not having the economy operating again. Farmers have produce and meat that they are having to trash (and the farmers could go bankrupt)...yet grocery stores are seeing their prices rise. It could get worse. People who have their entire life savings and dreams tied up in their small business, are not only losing those savings, but the business...which employs others...go bankrupt. It's not just about the money. It's about whether you can pay for food and your rent. Okay, so the government pays everyone a monthly payment. How long can they do that? Not for long. Someone has to buy that debt that the governments incur when they print money. And if you know you'll never get paid back, you won't buy that government bond. And then the government goes bankrupt. Famine erupts. In 1920-21, around 5 million people died of starvation in Russia. Venezuela is a more recent example of the "success" of socialism, as people are starving to death. That's very simplified, but I hope gets the point across. There are other effects of the virus that go beyond the sickness and those effects will destroy lives and kill people too.
A lot of words. Sorry. If you read all the way through and got lost...here's the main point. I don't think any of us can point fingers at those making decisions and fix blame on anyone... It is Monday morning quarterbacking. And if we do...we're saying we are smarter than those making the decisions...yet we are sitting on our hands.
If needed, we can split this off to its own topic so we don't lose the original thought...do we ride, or not during this time? Assuming we even have the option.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
Get the thread back on track is a good idea. Not sure how it got off track but lets look at some recent post content in this "Corona Virus - To Ride or not to ride" thread:
#160 - Daboo - $5.50 haircut post
#161 - Daboo - nary a wheel, engine or ride mentioned. Just fluffed the comprehension of a simple COVID article.
#166 - OX-34 - points out ignorance of Daboo, no bikes
#167 - Daboo - confesses ignorance, displays same, mentions other forums.
#168 - OX-34 - Quotes the ignorant Daboo, then says 'can ride and kick tyres at the bike shop' due to reduction in COVID-19 cases.
#170 - Daboo - Finally mentions riding only by referencing #168 post by OX-34
#171 - Daboo - Threatens to split thread for being off topic. Displays ignorance and hypocrisy in one post. Cool. Mentions riding only in reference to splitting the thread.
My suggestion is to keep it on the side of 'ride or not ride' and stop posting irrelevant and ignorant tripe. Do that over in the 'Grown-up' section of the forum.
I'm in New South Wales , Australia and I can and do ride legally anywhere I like within my state which is only a bit bigger than Texas. But I haven't crossed the nearest border 660km away since this all began.
You have that little going on in your life that you'll waste all that time cataloguing my posts? You need to get a life. 🙂
There was no threat intended. We've drifted off topic. Any moderator should offer to do the same. Both subjects are good. If you want, the topic can be split and the content not lost. It is the way good forums are managed.
I've been an admin or moderator on at least four forums so far. On any of those forums I'd split the topic and let the discussions continue. This is no different.
Now go take a ride. 🙂 We're all gonna die. Like the guy said on the movie Battleship. "I'm going to die. You're going to die. But... not today."
BTW, post come pics, or it didn't happen.
Chris
Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder
I gotta stand up for Daboo here - he is a good thread splitter. He started an atheist thread in the Grown-up section and it has 191 replies. Now, I choose not to ride . . . .
2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic-Gone to a new home
Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st
This morning I got on my KTM and rode to Alice's Restaurant, leaving at sunup. While the highways were pretty much deserted at that hour, I was very surprised to see all of the open space hiking area parking lots completely packed with cars. The area that was most occupied has only a few very long narrow trails with few if any places to pass someone by 6 feet. I bet there were over 100 people hiking there at 7:30am.
I and two friends arrived before the restaurant opened to get a takeout meal that we could eat off the premises on a convenient log. I might add that we were all wearing masks. About an hour later, business started picking up. Attached are three photos of the restaurant that I took a 9am, shortly before I left for home. Sorry about them being upside down, but they look fine on computer files. Turning them upside down in my computer files makes no difference.
On the way back home, riding along the coast highway, which is posted no parking, from one end of the county to the other, I noticed a lot of people walking along the beaches and surfing in the ocean. Then I noticed that every side street, even a 1/2 mile away, was lined with parked cars and people were running across the highway to get to the beach. I am kind of surprised that the cops just don't give up. When I returned home I listened to the traffic report at around noon and heard that by then, cars were lined up along the three highways that access the coast from more populated areas and just creeping along. I guess you can have all the rules that you want, but if a majority of the population don't pay any attention to the, I wonder what good that are?
In other news: Yesterday hundreds protesters marched around the state capital, representing just about every anti-government fraction you can think of, including gun rights, anti-vaccination proponents, libertarians, church groups, etc. They were bused in by an organization called Liberty Angeles. A few were interviewed and they didn't seem like they might also have been brought up by anti-education enthusiasts. They were protesting the state's anti-Covid-19 regulations and just about everything else you can think of. They had no parade permit and there were no arrests. And so it goes. What will be next?
Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.
That was an interesting read. In fact, this entire thread has been interesting reading, although the rhetoric may have become a little over-heated at times.
I live in a semi-rural location in north Georgia, about 60 miles north of Atlanta. As of this morning, we have a reported (probably under-reported) 88 cases of COVID-19, with 1 fatality. Georgia's governor, Brian Kemp has received a lot of criticism for pushing for a quick re-opening. I disagree with some of his policies (such as mandating that local government could not implement standards more restrictive than those of the state) but overall, I recognize that although Georgia is administratively one state, it is composed of many different areas, each with different risks and needs. The same goes for the rest of the country, and for the world. I am not happy with federal leadership through this pandemic, but it is what it is, and it's my responsibility to manage my risks as best I can.
I retired at the end of 2008, and just over 3 years ago, my wife and I moved from Atlanta to a house in the woods about 6 miles outside Dahlonega, a town of ~5000 people, with a university with more than 7000 students. The only significant change in our behavior since the first known case of COVID-19 was reported on March 21 is that we stopped eating out on that day, reduced our shopping to a few times a week, and when we go to town we wear face masks — not that I think a mask offers much protection to me (especially since I have a full beard), but at least the people whom I encounter can worry less about me (and vice versa). To my knowledge, nobody at Walmart or any other business has had a gun pulled on them by someone who is not wearing a mask.
Weather permitting, I have not stopped riding since March 21, and I plan to go out again in an hour or so. Forest Service fire roads were closed for ~2 weeks, but weather and weekend visitors from the hot zone to our south have been more important in cutting down on my off-road riding. Plus, a desire not to end up in an ER where the local hospital has only 12 beds. For the most part, I avoid street riding on weekends because there are so many more vehicles on the roads, especially the roads popular with riders. May is always a busy season around here for ambulance drivers.
My primary survival strategy is to avoid others, which is not difficult in our circumstances. We ate out again for the first time in 2 months on May 22, eating on an outside deck. As a child, I was hospitalized 4 times for asthma and/or pneumonia, I have had at least two more cases of pneumonia as an adult, and 6 years ago I was diagnosed with a form of COPD called bronchiectasis. Everything is well managed, but it doesn't take much to knock me off balance. Spring is a bad time in Georgia for people with allergies, but I have more than 70 years experience dealing with the symptoms, so I am not unduly alarmed if I start coughing or sneezing, although there is always an unwelcome frisson of wondering, is this different....?
Now I'll address your concerns about the oft quoted "The cure can't be worse than the disease". As a nation in this the USA has royally trucked itself. The USA had ample warning, did truck all to prevent the initial spread, cried like little truckers about the right to get a haircut and continued to snot cough and touch people all over the country when any idiot could see that was a trucking stoopid thing to do. As a consequence SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19 have spread far, wide and oh so deep. If the 'lockdowns' were actually done properly instead of being fought against by masses in the streets armed with AK-47s then by now your curve would have been shaped like this....
If you had simply done what was advised by your health authorities (not the pumpkin headed one) you would indeed be able to 'open it up'. The cure would have been absolutely nowhere near as bad as what you are all facing.
My 2c worth.
That's as good a summary of the situation as I have read. The problem is that we can't undo what has been done (or not done), and we have to live with the consequences. In my case, with multiple pre-existing pulmonary conditions, that means avoiding my fellow man as much as possible. I would be doing that during the pandemic regardless of what federal, state, county, or municipal policies are in place.
I continue to follow the Itchy Boots videos. She has been riding around the Netherlands while she cools her heals at home waiting for the pandemic crisis to end in South America so that she can resume her trip to Alaska. I was interested to see that there were no masks in sight during her ride and that Holland uses U.S. type stop signs for traffic control. However, it is tough to tell if people are maintaining social distancing from her short ride. She did say that most restaurants were closed for indoor dining, just takeout. The weather certainly looked nice, as did the many old windmills that were used for pumping water out of the land that are enclosed by the dikes and were used to reclaim much of the country's land area from the ocean. Very interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbeeIBobr0U
I follow her on IG, FB and YouTube, she is a delight
It was a real worry for her stuck in South America. She felt some of the locals seemed to be blaming her (as the only foreigner) for the virus and she didn't know how safe she was or not.
Ian
2014 GT Orange. Just the comfort pack and heated grips - not into gizmos.
"Pity the man who wasn't born in the Highlands and hears the pipes"
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Originally Posted by WildWilly
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Orange. Just the comfort pack and heated grips - not into gizmos.
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