"Recommended" oil apparently not up to snuff?

[tonydmm2]

I'm at 6000 miles on my 2010 f800st, (put 4000 miles on in two months of communting.)

I heard that BMW recommends castrol for their bikes, the castrol website recommends Power1 4T 10w40 full synthetic. I just ordered 4 quarts online, along with the k&n air & oil filters. I blew off the crush ring, is that really necessary?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Mokkybear]

I've always used that oil to good effect - smooth changes and engine seems to be a little quieter than the Shell and Mobil used by the shops prior to that.

I'd always use a crush washer for best sealing - normally re-use the old one if in good condition.

[N4HHE]

It seems to me that this is another of those urban legends; that you can't switch back once you change. I've gone back and forth between synthetic and dino in my old Jeep several times, and at 270,000 without any engine problems, I can say with practical experience, that this is a myth.

Darn near everything said about synthetic motor oil is a myth.

There is no reason not to "break in" with synthetic. No motor oil is so good that it will prevent high spots from rubbing off. This is a myth started by synthetic motor oil salesmen. How better to ingratiate your victims than to recommend (conditionally) against your own product?

I agree synthetic motor oil could be superior to refined motor oil, but disagree strongly with the inference that synthetic motor oil is automatically inherently indisputably superior.

There are properties which are easier to obtain via synthetic manufacturing methods. Just because synthetic methods were used is no assurance that a superior product was produced.

Synthetic motor oils do not lubricate with lower friction because they are synthetic. Some have lower friction than some refined oils because the designer of the synthetic motor oil desired that property.

The one thing a synthetic motor oil could do better, if only it would do better, is to retain its original properties longer and under more abuse. If you want a 25,000 mile oil then if one exists it will be synthetic. If you change at 5,000 miles then synthetic isn't buying you anything.

Synthetic is not a performance property.

[5ft2]

Not exactly a myth. There is truth to not changing oils, but it has to do with ash less dispersant oils and minerals oils. It is fine to use mineral oil first and then switch to ash less dispersant (synthetic or not), but you do not want to switch back to mineral oil after that. Your engine will then leak oil forever; even if you then switch back to ash less dispersant oil.


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[Roadpizza]

Oil threads…..I just love'm.

[Mickey Bitsko]

I have a 2009 F800GS with 38k+ miles. On recommendations from my dealer I changed to semi-synthetic on the second oil change and to full synthetic on the third oil change. I change oil about every 3500 miles. The viscosity recommendation in the BMW manual is SAE 10W-40 TO 15W-40. However, my experience was that these viscosities, at least in the full synthetic variety, were too thin - when changing gears it felt like there was no lubrication between the cogs or that the lubricant was more like water than oil.

The last time I changed the oil I decided to experiment and put a heavier weight oil in so purchased Amsoil's 20W-50 and the difference has been tremendous. My gear changes are smooth as butter and it now feels as if I have oil rather than water in my gearbox. I love it.

However, am I damaging the oil pump by putting in a heavier weight oil? I was wondering if any other F800 owners are experiencing anything similar? Feedback would be great.

Not only won't you damage anything, but BMW obviously agrees with you about the viscosity. The F800GT calls for 15w50. 20w50 "full synthetic" works nicely.

[FirstBMW]

I do not claim to be the worlds best authority on oils, but have spent significant amounts of time reading about them, and was a full trained automotive technician for many years, and my coworkers and I agreed on many things. Breaking in an engine on synthetic or dino oil is fine. Switching from one to the other is fine.
Often the car, suv, pickup truck manufacturers are now using too thin of oils for that 0.01 MPG increase in fuel mileage. In our own vehicles we often used thicker oils than suggested by Dodge, GM, Ford, etc.
Motorcycle engines can, and often do (not always though) share their transmission and engine oil. The gears shear oil viscosity down quicker than an engine alone would, so its beneficial to change it more frequently than in an automobile like a car or truck. I personally wouldn't run my bikes 16,000 kms between oil changes, but my car and pickup truck usually do around that far give or take a bit. And the oil experts say that the greater the spread in viscosity an oil has, the faster it will often shear down to to the additive package required to get the large spread. For example a 10w30 oil likely will not shear down as quickly in viscosity as a 10w50 oil will.
Bob is the oil guy is also a good website for some reading on the subject. I will not publicly post what i have used in my bikes for a long time, as it is considered controversial to some people, as it doesn't say motorcycle on the bottle. But I used to ride hard and not once have I ever had an engine problem that was oil related. I did once have an engine that self distructed internally, but it was nothing oil related at all. I am also a fair weather rider and do not ride my street bikes in temps below freezing, and its parked in a warm garage at home, so even if it was a cool morning and only 5C outside, my bike was just rolled out of a garage warmer than that, or because I am lazy usually started inside and ridden out. So yes I have been always able to run a thicker oil than some may be able to where they park outside and ride in cold weather. At 5C I stop riding, and drive the cage. But it gets very hot here, so temps up to 40C in the shade are not uncommon in the summer. In the sun a thermometer here in summer will read 60C plus regularly. So I think oil viscosity is largely dependent on where you live, and how you ride as well. But I like to err on the side of changing it too early rather than too late, not just for oil break down, but flushing out contaminants that pollute the oil as well. Oil and filters really are not that expensive.

[N4HHE]

Often the car, suv, pickup truck manufacturers are now using too thin of oils for that 0.01 MPG increase in fuel mileage. In our own vehicles we often used thicker oils than suggested by Dodge, GM, Ford, etc.

There was a revelation of how motor oil operates in plain bearings as found in automotive crankshafts. I used to know the SAE paper but believe it was cowritten by engineers from Ford and GM. There is something they do different with the bearing, some don't change at all, but when designed for 20 weight believe it or not 20 weight is the best.

Motorcycle engines can, and often do (not always though) share their transmission and engine oil. The gears shear oil viscosity down quicker than an engine alone would, so its beneficial to change it more frequently than in an automobile like a car or truck.

Yes but the valve lifters and camshaft lobes are every bit as nasty. This is where high lift hotrod engines from the 1960's fail. Even with moly and zinc sacrificial additives they need to stay under 3,000 mile drains.

Few remember the early days of Honda automobiles when the engines and transmissions were designed by motorcycle engineers. Honda specified straight 30 weight motor oil in the transmission. Thats what the engineers knew how to design for. Shearing be damned. Ask Blackstone Labs "what is the best motor oil?" and their answer is "straight 30 weight, any reputable brand."

I personally wouldn't run my bikes 16,000 kms between oil changes, but my car and pickup truck usually do around that far give or take a bit. And the oil experts say that the greater the spread in viscosity an oil has, the faster it will often shear down to to the additive package required to get the large spread. For example a 10w30 oil likely will not shear down as quickly in viscosity as a 10w50 oil will.

Yes. This is why 15W-40 is the standard Heavy Duty Fleet Oil: easier to retain properties for longer drains. But this is also where synthetic manufacturing processes can shine. VI's (viscosity improvers) are used to make a 10 weight oil thin no more than a 40 weight oil at 100°C and sold as 10W-40. Synthetic processes allow creation of a base oil with a similar viscosity curve using fewer or no VI additives. The catch-22 is just because the bottle says synthetic you have no idea what the manufacturer really did. This is also why the limit on refined oils is about 30 point spread, from 10 to 40, from 20 to 50. A refined oil is too delicate to do 5W-50.

[Richard230]

And to complicate things: The oil industry came up with five classes of 'synthetic" oil some years ago. (This was apparently the result of a settlement of a lawsuit by various oil companies all claiming that their oils were "synthetic".) Classes 1 though 3 are petroleum oils that has been refined to various specifications, each level presumably more refined than a lower level, but they are still labeled as "synthetic". Class 4 uses a manufactured base lubricant, such as PAO, which I believe is what Amsoil uses. While Class 5, uses an ester base, such as that used by Redline in their oils. As to which one is better, I'll leave that up to the oil marketers and discussions on "oil threads".

[N4HHE]

And to complicate things: The oil industry came up with five classes of 'synthetic" oil some years ago. (This was apparently the result of a settlement of a lawsuit by various oil companies all claiming that their oils were "synthetic".) Classes 1 though 3 are petroleum oils that has been refined to various specifications, each level presumably more refined than a lower level, but they are still labeled as "synthetic". Class 4 uses a manufactured base lubricant, such as PAO, which I believe is what Amsoil uses. While Class 5, uses an ester base, such as that used by Redline in their oils. As to which one is better, I'll leave that up to the oil marketers and discussions on "oil threads".

Yes, but those 5 categories only specify how the oil is made, not what is made. There is no requirement to produce a superior product when it is sold as synthetic, only that one follow the prescribed manufacturing processes.

[FirstBMW]

And some just use conventional old oil in their bikes.