Metel shavings in oil screen #1,please help 100 hours/3k miles

[Holatexas]

I just got this 2010,with 3k miles and around 95/100 hours,I did the 1st two oil changes with new spark plug and there are shinny metel fillings in the front screen,please help,I don't like the motor sound I'm not familiar with this type of motor so I'm not sure what it needs to sound like BMW G450X,2010

[Tims1572]

I just got this 2010,with 3k miles and around 95/100 hours,I did the 1st two oil changes with new spark plug and there are shinny metel fillings in the front screen,please help,I don't like the motor sound I'm not familiar with this type of motor so I'm not sure what it needs to sound like BMW G450X,2010

Welcome to the G450 Riders Forum, "Holatexas".
You are in the right place. First of all the engine runs the same oil in the crankshaft area as it does through the gearbox. 2 screens though. A 2 stage Eaton pump handles the scavenge and pressure side of the oiling job preset at 36psi. using a pressure relief bypass.

Front screen is primarily for the crankshaft area of the engines part of the cases built in sump. Are these shiny metal filings you have in the screen magnetic? If so, you have bearing or some sort of steel on steel internal parts failure coming up. I would suggest getting a service CD disc and start to take a look inside as soon a you can. Husky '11 to '13- 449/511 service disc is the same for the engine. Other than the gear box on the TE's and TXC's which are 6 speeds.

These filings as you call them could be from running the engine low on oil and galling of the cylinder heads camshaft saddles has begun or any number of many other things. Start at the top, at the rocker box cover and start a tear down and inspect everything closely.

I should say, but don't want you to run it if its pulverizing something? What kind of noise is the engine making? If the filings are aluminum (shiny) you could be in for something as simple as a timing chain.

Give us some more information on the noise it is now making. Let us know if the shavings (filings) are magnetic. Then start a service inspection.

[bello650]

Hello and welcome Tex,
Below a link to a Dropbox presentation for the launch of the bike. Page 8 down the engine you see the locations for both filters. The left filter is for the dry crankcase, the right for the gearbox filled with oil (the yellow color), depending on the metal shaving on the left or right filters you can determine whether if the crankshaft or the gearbox that causes the metal shaving.
Pages 19 and 20 you see the engine lubrification with the arrows for the oil circulation like Tim explained in previous post.
We use this racing stainless steel oil filter with incresed flow en better filtration instead of the normal oil paper filter : http://www.ziptyracing.com/pc-racing...il-filter-167/
See Tim explaination here Post #2 : http://g450riders.org/forum/showthre...il+filter+G450

For the engine noise I can't help you.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ts4nmrd2e...ation.pdf?dl=0

[Campbell]

Another source of metal in this screen is the stator winding, metal would be copper and you would have a charging issue.

[Johan Coetsee]

Hi attached is the images of my stater and fly wheel, the problem started when I noticed my clutch had a bolt lose. Got this fixed and then I noticed a drop in my WATTS when bike is charging the motor runs smooth. So the metal chrome shavings was found in my oil. Can someone maybe tell me maybe about the oil cycle of the g450x, will the shaving moved deeper into my engin. My fly wheel is also quite lose, assif the bearing in around the crank is worn out, less than a mm play, but I can still feel some play. So must I open the whole engin or can I just replace my broken part and flush the engin a few for the first 3 petrol tanks? Hope to get some help and advice please.

[Campbell]

Johan,

when you say "my clutch had a bolt loose" are you referring to the Starter Clutch bolted to the inner side of the Flywheel?

Did the Starter Sprag Clutch bolt missing from the Flywheel in your photo come right out, come loose and back partially out or pop the head off leaving the thread behind?

"So must I open the whole engin or can I just replace my broken part and flush the engin a few for the first 3 petrol tanks?" You need to do a bit of self assessment, if the quantity and type of material found in your oil screen is consistent with the damage you can see too the stator then you could flush out this area and do 2-3 oil changes checking the screen each time. I would suggest no more than three minutes running for the first two changes and re-asses from there.

If the quantity and type of material is not consistent with the damage you can see and you have excessive Crankshaft play (check both axial and radial play) you will need to go further. By the way where did you get the flywheel puller from? I haven't been able to find one other than genuine.

When you remove the Flywheel remove the woodruff key and check for cracking of the Crankshaft.

It is my understanding that the new Stator comes complete with Flywheel/Starter Clutch/Stator winding and Crank Angle Sensor.
Alternatively the Stator can be rewound.

A bit of further info on this thread, suggest you read the whole thread some good info, along with my opinion....expletives deleted at Mod's request!
http://g450riders.org/forum/showthre...ontinue!/page2

Best of luck and keep us updated.
Campbell

[Tims1572]

Hi attached is the images of my stater and fly wheel, the problem started when I noticed my clutch had a bolt lose. Got this fixed and then I noticed a drop in my WATTS when bike is charging the motor runs smooth. So the metal chrome shavings was found in my oil. Can someone maybe tell me maybe about the oil cycle of the g450x, will the shaving moved deeper into my engin. My fly wheel is also quite lose, assif the bearing in around the crank is worn out, less than a mm play, but I can still feel some play. So must I open the whole engin or can I just replace my broken part and flush the engin a few for the first 3 petrol tanks? Hope to get some help and advice please.

First off Johan,

The left side crankshaft bearing sounds like its coming apart. Which 1 of the 2 screens was full of metal debris ? Was it the front one and how did it get broken? Was that the end facing in or out? You said you had a clutch screw come loose? On the clutch spring retainer hat? Someone must have left one loose installing new clutch plates. When It probably had a slipping Torque limiter. You can read about this on this Forum.

The Flywheel screws coming loose is a known issue. yours isn't damaged very much compared to the handfuls of copper we have seen on here out of some stators. The screws tend to back off. The manual repair CD listed too high of a torque reading for them anyway. Notice the hole in the center of the screws stem shank below and deeper past the hexed ends of those screws. They break and snap right off there. They are stretched commonly from over torqueing during installation when new sometimes. The gasket set is called " Repair kit for Alternator K16" it comes with the gasket, 6 new screws for the flywheel that hold the gear to the rear of the flywheel, with green Loctite already applied, a new flywheel nut and washer, 10 side cover screw washers and a new thrust washer for the bearing end in the side cover for the crankshafts stem.

By the way what is the pitch and diameter of the puller you have on the flywheel. I forget the size, Diameter and thread pitch that it is?

You can get your stator repaired and rewound there in South Africa. Send a private message to BiGDoM. He is in Grahamstown, SA. He should be able to tell you who did his I think.

Here's one of the problems. All the new stators have the flywheel included as a complete kit with the CDI trigger also as a complete assembly. The Flywheels have a different size woodruff key on them. They will not fit your old crankshafts woodruff key slot and vice versa. All the new crankshafts have this newer size slot and the complete alternator/stator flywheel CDI assembly is the only one that fits the crankshaft anyway.

It sounds to me like you will be replacing a crankshaft and a few other things as well. Most Husky 449 parts,gaskets are interchangeable. except for the 6spd transmission components of the TE and TXC, Husky models. The Husky TC 449 has a 5spd trans but the gears are close ratio.

These crankshafts are not serviceable or really re-buildable. Meaning they are made up of only 2 pieces. Unlike most cranks that are 3 pieces and can have the crankshafts connecting rod big end of the rod journal simply replaced. These cranks the Rod Journal is part of one of the 2 halves of the crank. Once its damaged that's it. A new rod bearing and new rod can be pressed and installed but the journal itself will be worn out. I have heard of these flywheels being bored out to take a separate crankpin that was hard chromed and pressed back together to balance but that is just not feasible.

You can see copper transferred onto the head of the flywheel screw at the approx. 9 o clock position from rubbing on the copper windings. Why? Was it loose?

Unless you can find good used parts you will be buying a bunch of stuff for a rebuild. These engines have a 2 stage Eaton oil pump. One side is a scavenge pump and the other side handles the pressure feeds which are sprayed through jets. It is regulated to 36psi regardless of how hot or how high the engine is spinning its still only 36psi. pressure. When the engine is cold it gets less oil sprayed out of those all important oiling jets if you are running too thick of an oil viscosity index. I run 0W40 Mobil 1. Nothing thicker. European car formula that has no friction modifiers and is safe for wet clutches. Its available by the jug and is labeled for Mercedes Benz, BMW, VW cars. Read about this here in the forum as well. "Campbell" knows a thing or 2 about that subject and how to add a cooler. I run a S/S filter as well.

By the way. What did you find in the main oil filter above the sprocket behind the 22mm cap?

[bello650]

Tim,

#1 : Where did you find the reference for the repair kit alternator K16 12 41 7 723 442 ? I cannot find it on BMWETK.info ?

#2 : It's not mentioned on BMW ETK from which year the change the alternator assembly, do you know it ? So when you change the crankshaft you need also to replace the alternator !

[Tims1572]

Pascal,

I have had that gasket set for about a year or more and more than likely bought it from BikeBandit.com. It is for the BMW and I would think it is the proper width replacement size woodruff key. It comes also with the kit. I haven't opened it. So I haven't actually measured the difference in thickness of the woodruff keys. I'm not sure if my '11 TC 449 engine has the wider one or not. Or any of the original '11 to '13 Husky's from the stock assembly. But any new crankshafts have a wider flywheel woodruff key. Unless you can source an older OEM replacement from somewhere. Which is something that you have to look out for.

I don't know at what point or date "BMW/Husky/Kymco", decided they needed to actually change this. I have read about the same issue popping up when replacing the crankshafts though on the Husky 449's and 511s also during rebuilds. Where even their stock flywheels would not fit the new replacement crankshafts.

All I know is that every new replacement crankshaft I know that has been purchased has a larger/ later version width woodruff key for the stator Flywheel. G450 riders Forum member "Matt Schiller" ran into this issue himself when he had ZipTy Racing assemble his big bore BMW engine. He had a new crankshaft purchased direct from Speedbrain and brought it to them for the rebuild and the BMW stator assembly he had in the box of parts from his original engine would not fit.

The earlier stator Flywheel would not install on the new crankshaft. He had to buy the newer complete stator assembly to fit the new later version replacment crankshaft.

Earlier post from Matt below:

I picked it up today! Only took it for a 2 minute ride (around ZipTy) in the dirt and about 10 on the street (my neighborhood).
Power is WAY up there, its a beast.
Ported the head, went to the 477 big bore. Head had to be machined to take out compression for the 511/477 parts. So might as well have it cleaned up as well..
Cylinder & piston were both trashed, so had to replace, only made sense to go overboard with the 477, right?
One thing to note for people is that the older cranks have a smaller key for the flywheel. New crank = new flywheel @ $230ish.
Had some missing parts that had to be replaced, had some that had damage that needed replacing. Big parts list, but I know the motor is healthy now.
They redid the side stand, looks stock, but a lot stronger. I will take pics, and measure thickness of both. They also machined a new bushing for it.

[Campbell]

Tim,

#1 : Where did you find the reference for the repair kit alternator K16 12 41 7 723 442 ? I cannot find it on BMWETK.info ?

#2 : It's not mentioned on BMW ETK from which year the change the alternator assembly, do you know it ? So when you change the crankshaft you need also to replace the alternator !

All,

It might pay to check with BMW re the Crank Assembly and Flywheel Woodruff Key size. A check of Max BMW does not show any up date nor does the BMW parts finder Pascal put up.....thanks Pascal. This would be highly unusual if BMW had made a change during the G450X production run. The Crank and Flywheel used in the Husky's is however definitely larger and the parts cheaper, depending on what parts are required a change to the Husky components might be cheaper.

Campbell

[Tims1572]

All,

It might pay to check with BMW re the Crank Assembly and Flywheel Woodruff Key size. A check of Max BMW does not show any up date nor does the BMW parts finder Pascal put up.....thanks Pascal. This would be highly unusual if BMW had made a change during the G450X production run. The Crank and Flywheel used in the Husky's is however definitely larger and the parts cheaper, depending on what parts are required a change to the Husky components might be cheaper.

Campbell

I guess I should have simplified the post by saying the crankshaft if replaced is much harder to find currently through a BMW Dealer and if you pay the higher price you should be assured it still has the original size woodruff key.

I don't know what the replacement crankshaft cost "Matt" at the time, through "Speedbrain" but with the delay in shipping. I do know that "ZipTy Racing" would have been able to get the replacement crankshaft through their parts supplier network a bit less expensive and probably sooner. However he had already made the crankshaft purchase through "Speedbrain". Before "ZipTy" actually picked his bike up for an overhaul and re-assembly for him. So consequently the crankshaft even received as new from "Speedbrain" was sourced through "Speedbrain's parts suppliers" and it had the newer "Husky" spec woodruff key. As will most others, being nearly 2 years later at this point.

Unless a BMW dealer network can source "OEM new old parts" off the shelf of a BMW Supplier. To get a replacement BMW 2009-2010 crankshaft. If that is possible that would be the way to go. Looks like a stator is still needed or at a minimum it can be rewound.

The cost of some of the complete "BMW crate engines" through some of the current sources with the radiator's and all the other associated parts included may actually be cheaper in the long run. That being said, going internal and re-buying new parts to replace all the used, or questionable, some of which may be determined or upon inspection, to be able to be re-used. There are going to be many more related parts needed after actual teardown. Add that to the cost of splitting the cases to see what may actually be damaged. Individual parts and bearings with labor can add up rather quickly.

So it might be more cost effective to have a broken or damaged spare engine for spare parts and just plug a new bullet in the chassis.

[Campbell]

Edit to my previous post, the Flywheel weight may have changed with the Husky as they have a lighter Clutch Pack.

[Tims1572]

This is true Campbell. I don't know the total weight difference of the 2 clutches, side by side. I have however posted several times the plate thickness differences. And the approximate overall depth difference from the BMW basket, compared to the Husqvarna 449's basket.

I don't actually know if the flywheel weighs any more or not on the Husky. As it has the lighter of the 2 clutches. You would sort of think so but the Husky's are also known for flame outs a lot more than the BMWs too. So that in my opinion has a lot to do with not only FI mapping but just about as much to do with rotating flywheel weight / carryover. So maybe not?