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  1. #1
    Daboo's Avatar
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    Today, I would've been somewhere around Medford, OR on my way to Palo Alto where my daugher and SIL live for an overnight stay before heading to Death Valley. I decided to cancel the trip. As it turns out, the governor shut down California anyway.

    But my reasoning was simply that I felt it pretty selfish to be out riding and exposing others. I figure I'm one of those 86% that would be carrying the coronavirus and not show any symptoms. But my wife has chronic asthma. If I pick up the virus on the trip and give it to her...well, I won't even see her die because no one is allowed with coronavirus patients in the hospitals. They die alone.

    And my in-laws are in their 90's. If I give it to them...they're gone too.

    If you look at the map of how the virus spread, you'll see where the USA is covered in red dots. On the east coast, it's almost solid. Same on the west coast. And in the "fly over country", it looks like it has measles. But a month ago, there were only three red dots. Small ones. How did the coronavirus get out to those other areas?

    Many of my entertainment (non-commuting) rides are hundreds of miles. Rides that maybe start over here in the Seattle area, head over Stevens Pass, go south along Hwy 97 till I get to Ellensburg, and head home over Snoqualmie Pass. I'm not interacting with anyone...till I stop for gas. Or I stop to use the restroom. Or I stop to eat.

    I wrestled with the logic for days of why it was okay to be outside walking, but not motorcycling. (At least one state has banned motorcycle riding.) My conclusion is that when I walk, I stay in my own neighborhood. When I ride, I'm potentially taking that virus hundreds of miles across the state.

    From ADVRider:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Diego
    Our Commander here on base said something so important today and I wanted to share it. He said instead of acting like you are trying to avoid getting the virus from other people, pretend you have it and try to not give it to anyone else.


    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6 

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    It will be a while before we get a chance to even think about going for a ride here in East Anglia.

    The current message in the UK stay local, unless you are a "key worker" don't travel.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

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    I "choose" not to ride even a short distance with no stops. My reason is that if I'm injured I will stretch already stretched medical staff and possibly use a hospitals bed that could be better served to save someone with the virus. This is my choice.
    2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic
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  6. #4
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    This is the position I have come to as the situation has worsened exponentially in our area over the past week. Last week, riding seemed an innocuous means to keep sane and somewhat active. Just as others would jog or hike at the park. Just as those parks are closing and activities evolve, riding does too.

    Should I have an accident, I don't want to take EMS and doctor time. I don't want to go to a hospital where all the contagious folks could be. Pumping gas is a risk, etc. So I have also come to conclusion to not consider riding. We are just going to go out every week to 10 days for needed groceries. I considered home delivery but they are now refusing orders certain days because of volume. I will do curbside pickup at the grocery store if available. Buy what I can from Amazon, Staples, Walmart online.

    Tough times and ever evolving. NYC has ordered EMS not to even try CPR if a person has no pulse on their calls. CPR is too risky and the resources needed aren't there. Never thought, a week or two ago, that we would get to this. And the next few weeks likely will be worse/

    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    I "choose" not to ride even a short distance with no stops. My reason is that if I'm injured I will stretch already stretched medical staff and possibly use a hospitals bed that could be better served to save someone with the virus. This is my choice.
    2009 F800ST (Night Blue Metallic) l 1999 SV650 (Naked & Red) l
    l 2012 G650 GS Sertao l 2012 Can-Am Spyder RT-S (Mrs. Meteor's...) 

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    Nope, no, nadda....save lives( possibly your own) stay at home.
    BMW F800S…….

    There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies.... 

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    Not me. I ride almost every day to go to the hardware store, the grocery store, the bank (I was just there today) and around the local area to keep the oil and gas circulating in my motorcycles. I might add that I am joined by plenty of auto drivers and some motorcycle riders no matter what time I head out.

    Interestingly, there was an article in my newspaper today that said that there were no limits on the length of a trip within California. This was in response to someone who asked if it would be OK for him to drive from San Francisco to San Diego to attend a relative's funeral.

    We are continually told to stay at home, but also to patronize the business that have remained open. I will say one thing, though: I shopped at the local Safeway yesterday and the place was pretty busy - and I might add that the store has raised its prices a lot since last week. I bought some whole wheat flour that was $3.99 last week and was $6.99 this week. About half the customers were trying to maintain a 6' distance from each other, while the other half were not. I was one of the few wearing gloves. Also, the clerks that I saw were not wearing masks or gloves, but were spraying the self-help checkout register keys with some sort of spray after every use. I don't think I will return to that store anytime soon. Still no paper products of any sort, too.

    There is a push today for everyone in California to wear masks when people go out of their homes. I wonder where they want us to purchase those masks?
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  11. #7
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    Chris, all the areas that were affected by the bushfire were screaming for visitors to get the areas and local businesses going again. Within a month they were pleading with visitors to stay at home, even if it caused them more financial pain.
    The reason is simple, they don't have the medical facilities to look after seriously injured or ill people, visitors or local. Any such patients tie up multiple resources getting them to medical treatment.
    We live under the flightpath of the district medivac chopper, which flew overhead quite often. I haven't heard it for days, now that most sensible people are staying home. Today will be my last day working from the office (a 400 metre walk away) because I don't feel comfortable getting out there with the possibity of catching or spreading the virus.
    Everyone should check out the corona virus version of Bohemian Rhapsody and take in the words.
    Please, everyone, stay at home and don't be an idiot.
    As of Mon, 1st Feb 2016- ;
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery,
    Today is a gift (that's why it's called "the present")
    #1 tip I ride by: Ride as though you're invisible, not invincible
    Bikes so far: Honda CB250-Traded, Suzuki GS500F-Traded, '07 F800ST Matt Graphitan-Deceased, '10 F800ST Night Blue-sold, at present bikeless 

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  13. #8
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    I don't completely get the "stay at home" concept. I can see that idea during the 1970's gas crisis when fuel was really hard to get. In my case, I live by myself, when I go out riding I don't stop unless it is to buy something that I need and when I do that I take as many precautions as I can to keep my distance from everyone. I haven't been in a hospital for 70 years, since I had my tonsils removed, and I haven't been sick with anything but a cold for 50 years. Plus, I haven't had a motorcycle accident that involved moving more than 5 mph and the last one of those was about 20 years ago. Finally, I am sure that I wouldn't want to experience any virus symptoms, but frankly if I did get sick I would just suffer at home and would never call an ambulance to take me to a hospital, no matter how sick I was.

    So, while I understand the concept of staying at home, it is just a method to enforce the general populace from coming in contact with each other that is easy to enforce. But in my opinion what is really required is for people to just stay away from each other as much as possible, rather than being required to lock themselves away in a self-imposed jail. Of course, I fully understand that if people would run their lives by the "golden rule", there wouldn't be any trash alongside the roadways, men wouldn't stuff paper towels down urinals, car owners wouldn't perform burnouts and sideshows in intersections, vehicle owners wouldn't change out stock mufflers for loud ones or play music loud enough to wake the dead, pickup drivers wouldn't drive all over school lawns, motorcycle riders wouldn't travel 150 mph in a 65 mph speed zone, etc.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    Richard, I am quite a bit younger than you and was like that as far as being healthy most of my life, until 2016. Then I spent a year being treated by some of the best medical practitioners and specialists in Aus, just to stay alive. You don't know what's around the corner for you. If you did have an off at even at low speed, what would be the consequences if someone came to assist you was a C-19 carrier and you got it. Then every surface you touch or breath on could become someone else's worst nightmare. I'm not willing to take that chance as I feel I have a duty of care towards myself and other people that I may have contact with.
    Sometimes we have to forgo our freedoms for the good of everyone.
    As of Mon, 1st Feb 2016- ;
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery,
    Today is a gift (that's why it's called "the present")
    #1 tip I ride by: Ride as though you're invisible, not invincible
    Bikes so far: Honda CB250-Traded, Suzuki GS500F-Traded, '07 F800ST Matt Graphitan-Deceased, '10 F800ST Night Blue-sold, at present bikeless 

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  17. #10
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    I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling that we're making this up on the fly. Stay home. Go out and support local businesses. Maintain 6" distance. Call ahead and we'll bring your food out to your car. We don't need to wear masks. Masks are now under review. Get out and get fresh air. All parks are closed. I'm not going to ride my motorcycle but, like Richard, this stay as home is confusing.
    2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic
    Not a 2nd childhood, still in the 1st 

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  19. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    I'm starting to get an uneasy feeling that we're making this up on the fly. Stay home. Go out and support local businesses. Maintain 6" distance. Call ahead and we'll bring your food out to your car. We don't need to wear masks. Masks are now under review. Get out and get fresh air. All parks are closed. I'm not going to ride my motorcycle but, like Richard, this stay as home is confusing.
    I think the docs would've preferred we use masks...but there aren't enough. In Hong Kong, everyone wears a mask. If you're sick, it prevents the germs from being spread. If you're not sick, it gives you some protection. In a crowded environment like Hong Kong, it probably is impossible to stay six feet away from anyone else.

    Now that more masks are being made available, I think you're starting to see some movement towards those. Still, the authorities don't want to get into panic buying. Look at what happens every year at Walmart stores after Thanksgiving...or the recent buying up of TP.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I think the docs would've preferred we use masks...but there aren't enough. In Hong Kong, everyone wears a mask. If you're sick, it prevents the germs from being spread. If you're not sick, it gives you some protection. In a crowded environment like Hong Kong, it probably is impossible to stay six feet away from anyone else.

    Now that more masks are being made available, I think you're starting to see some movement towards those. Still, the authorities don't want to get into panic buying. Look at what happens every year at Walmart stores after Thanksgiving...or the recent buying up of TP.

    Chris
    The masks people use in Hong Kong are not good enough. Covid 19 particles are less than 0.03 in size those masks will not stop the particles getting through. A full face respirator is the best option.

    Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk

  22. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceNicho View Post
    The masks people use in Hong Kong are not good enough. Covid 19 particles are less than 0.03 in size those masks will not stop the particles getting through. A full face respirator is the best option.

    Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk
    In California, health officials and politicians are insisting that everyone wear any sort of a mask, even a cotton bandana. In my neighborhood travels I see mostly older people wearing masks and most younger people not doing so. However it seems to me that the wearing of any type of mask is more to show solidarity with the virus regulations, rather than anything that a bandana or other homemade mask might do to prevent the transmission of the virus. I think we are reaching the point when a lot of people are now grasping at straws, trying to come up with any idea that they can think of that might help, even if it is only ceremonial.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    In California, health officials and politicians are insisting that everyone wear any sort of a mask, even a cotton bandana. In my neighborhood travels I see mostly older people wearing masks and most younger people not doing so. However it seems to me that the wearing of any type of mask is more to show solidarity with the virus regulations, rather than anything that a bandana or other homemade mask might do to prevent the transmission of the virus. I think we are reaching the point when a lot of people are now grasping at straws, trying to come up with any idea that they can think of that might help, even if it is only ceremonial.
    They are also under the illusion that a mask of some sort will protect them, which sadly it won't. When my own father told me he had bought masks for himself and my grandmother a month ago I told him then that they are a placebo only and to have any protection he needs a respirator with a P2 particulate filter (which ICU staff are being supplied here at least). He went out and bought them both one of those.

    A mask may be a symbolic stand of togetherness but I fear it will cause more harm then good as people will think "I have a mask on, I'm safe" when sadly they are not.

    Even our "duck bill" N95 masks only have a life span of 30mins at most, even less when they get damp. And they aren't even what I (or most nurses) would consider the gold standard in protection.

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  25. #15
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    This virus can be far worse I think than just a bad cold or the flu. Here's what a New Orleans ER doc wrote several days ago.

    Clinical course is predictable.
    2-11 days after exposure (day 5 on average) flu like symptoms start. Common are fever, headache, dry cough, myalgias (general muscular pain; back pain indicated as common), nausea without vomiting, abdominal discomfort with some diarrhea, loss of smell, anorexia, fatigue.

    Day 5 of symptoms- increased SOB (shortness of breath), and bilateral viral pneumonia (double pneumonia) from direct viral damage to lung parenchyma (the portion of the lung involved in gas transfer - the alveoli, alveolar ducts and respiratory bronchioles.)

    Day 10- Cytokine storm (overproduction of immune cells and their activating compounds (cytokines), signaling an inflammatory response flaring out of control) leading to acute ARDS (Acute respiratory distress syndrome) and multiorgan failure. You can literally watch it happen in a matter of hours.
    Someone had taken his original note and added the explanations for the medical terms so even I could understand it. Note what happens on Day 10. Your immune cells flood your system and cause mult-organ failue. "You can literally watch it happen". Wow.

    But as you mentioned before, if you get sick, you'll just go home. I've read this is one disease that is so communicable that when you are admitted, that's the last time you see your loved ones. No one but the medical staff will see you till you are either discharged or put in a body bag.

    I've seen reports that people are pooh-poohing the whole thing. I wonder why NYC has @85 refrigerator trucks that are being used for morgues.

    Chris
    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
    IBA# 49894 True Rounder = 0-20's - Rounder -- to -- 100's+ Red Hot Rounder

    John 14:6 

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  27. #16
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    I don't think anybody is doubting the severity of the virus. I feel confused about what feels like mixed messages.
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  28. #17
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    Great thread, folks. Timely and some wonderfully deep, considerate, well-expressed thoughts. All of them. Been wondering why I am not riding; I had all the above thoughts rolling around in my head but couldn't put them into words. You guys just did. Thank you.
    Royce
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  30. #18
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    Somthing light hearted from the BBC on the subject, made me smile :-

    https://www.facebook.com/35401659797...eHkts&d=w&vh=e


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  32. #19
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    As someone who has been hearing that riding a motorcycle will kill you, yet has been riding for 59 years without an accident that caused more than a scrape on my knee, I have a different point of view than most people. Frankly, I am starting to consider riding my motorcycle around in a safe manner, to be less dangerous than walking around the neighborhood. With everyone being pushed out of all parks and recreation areas, the sidewalks are now getting crowded as people, and especially dog walkers, are occupying the 4' wide sidewalks in my area. That means that to maintain the recommended 6' distance from each other, and especially dogs on 10' leashes, one person (or group) will have to move into the street to get around them, and that puts you into the way of traffic, which is typically moving well over the speed limit as drivers in their safe and secure cars go whizzing by.

    Last Sunday I took a 30-mile ride to Alice's Restaurant at 8am to help the owners stay in business by purchasing one of their takeout breakfasts. I took a less traveled route to get there as our freeways have become race tracks now that they are relatively empty. Along the way, I saw about 6 sheriff and CHP cars hiding in the bushes and just randomly driving around. They didn't even bat an eye as I passed by. But then I wasn't wearing a mask and looking like a robber.

    I realize that everyone is in a panic (being helped along by the news media and politicians who are having daily news conferences with new scary announcements), but I do think there is a place for individual common sense. If you stay away from other people like I do, why do you need to be locked up in your home, of wear a mask if you are not sick and have no symptoms of any kind? Unfortunately, I realize that common sense is not as common in the human race as it is in horses, so I guess that results in the continuing "broad brush" approach.

    But I certainly agree with Bill that there is no obvious coordination between the various recommendations on keeping safe, to say nothing about any sort of uniform standards or enforcement. The politicians want everyone to stay home, but they also want you to go out and patronize businesses to both keep them open, their employees (what is left of them) employed, and to keep them paying taxes.

    I realize that most people feel that riding a motorcycle is dangerous, but so is staying at home. You could be injured just getting out of your bathtub and also end up in the hospital. In fact, my dad died when he was getting out of his bath and suffered a heart attack.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  34. #20
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    Well crap. It looks like my comments about riding have now become somewhat theoretical. My county has just ordered that travel to "nonessential" services, such as hiking areas and going for a joy ride can not exceed a distance of 5 miles. That wouldn't even get me to the city limits of my town, much less to Alice's Restaurant. See the attached article from my newspaper today.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_8961.JPG 
Views:	34 
Size:	952.9 KB 
ID:	360715  
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    Regrettably, good sense is in short supply and anything but common. So short in supply that we now need rules to regulate behavior.


    “Staying home is your way to serve, so be smart about what you do, about the choices you make. That is how you’ll serve your country and how we’ll all serve each other.”
    Concrete remains undefeated. 

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    I concur

    Quote Originally Posted by Runmyownlife View Post
    Regrettably, good sense is in short supply and anything but common. So short in supply that we now need rules to regulate behavior.


    “Staying home is your way to serve, so be smart about what you do, about the choices you make. That is how you’ll serve your country and how we’ll all serve each other.”
    BMW F800S…….

    There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies.... 

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  39. #24
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    Working together for the common good is a basic tenet of civilization and the measure of a person and a culture. From group hunting and sharing the kill, to group farming and sharing the bounty. Working together is part of every team sport, the military, all volunteer organizations, most workplaces and taught by every civic organization. It is what your grandparents taught your parents, and what they taught you.

    Sadly, we seem to have lost this concept. Social distancing is the only tool we have, currently; recreational riding is selfish. Why be that person? Why set that example?

    Be safe. Be well. Be kind.

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    Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. 

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  41. #25
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    Just to illustrate how the rules for social distancing are anything but uniform around here, while I am apparently legally constrained to a 5-mile radius, I have a friend who usually joins me at Alice's Restaurant every Sunday morning. He rides 90 miles from a county north of San Francisco to Alice's. His county has no travel restrictions. Why should the standards to control the spread of the virus be different depending upon where you live and not even where you travel? It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  42. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    Just to illustrate how the rules for social distancing are anything but uniform around here, while I am apparently legally constrained to a 5-mile radius, I have a friend who usually joins me at Alice's Restaurant every Sunday morning. He rides 90 miles from a county north of San Francisco to Alice's. His county has no travel restrictions. Why should the standards to control the spread of the virus be different depending upon where you live and not even where you travel? It really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    You do 'math' right? Do they teach that stuff there?

    If you live in the wilderness on a mountain 100 miles away from anybody maintaining social distancing is pretty easily. Lets say you have 1 person per 100 square miles. You probably won't get the SARS-CoV-2 virus. If, on the other hand, you live in downtown NYC where it may be 10000 people per square mile then maintaining social distancing is very difficult and, um, you probably have the virus already. Sorry. Current understanding of the virulence of SARS-CoV-2 is that each infected patient on average infects 2.2 to 2.6 others. In a crowded room one person may infect a dozen, on a mountainside not so much.

    Between these two geographical extremes is where everyone else lives. Each location lies on a continuum of personal space if nothing else. Unfortunately, the cases in the US exploded so fast, rolling through densely populated and clueless areas and was sprinkled around by air and road and train travel.

    The general principles of individual social distancing apply, but in heavily populated areas the little snail trails left behind by each person create an even more dense tangle of interpersonal encounters.

    That's why there are different standards. Unfortunately, given the mind boggling numbers in the US it would appear that every incremental step implemented to slow the spread has come just a little bit too late. Even when too late, the 'free thinkers' push back. "ME-ME-ME" they wail.

    I'd suggest you mate north of San Francisco should stay north of San Francisco.

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  44. #27
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    Illinois has a shelter in place and Iowa does not. I'm right on the Mississippi River. People cross a bridge and have different restrictions.
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  45. #28
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    They shouldn't. They should be uniform, national, and more restrictive than most are; it is our best hope according to virtually all experts and has been shown in other countries.

    Unfortunately, they are not. So, we can choose, on our own, to be responsible and do what the experts say, which is what "makes sense" or look for "ways around" even the loose restrictions imposed.

    Or we all can continue to act like 2 year olds..."I wanna go out, they can go out, why can't I? Waaaaaaaa."

    Medical experts are experts because they have specific training. Ignoring what they uniformly say, because you don't understand, because you can or because non-experts don't agree, is like taking advice from a 5 year old to adjust your valves.

    You know what you should do, and I get that you don't like it. No one does. Do it anyway because it is the right thing to do.
    Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. 

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  47. #29
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    I self quarantine and don't ride my GT. I try to lead by example because I feel it works better than calling people infantile names.
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  49. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I figure I'm one of those 86% that would be carrying the coronavirus and not show any symptoms. But my wife has chronic asthma. If I pick up the virus on the trip and give it to her...
    Chris I think you misstyped. If you really think that you are carrying the virus, then guess what? You have the virus, by your own definition. And you can't "pick up" this virus, by definition, if you have it.
    Perhaps you are mistaken or have misconstrued the information from whatever source the "86%" came. I hope you don't have it and you and your family stay well.

    You mentioned the "red dots"on the map. Like any Zombie Apocalypse movie it has become "almost solid" having progressed in a month from "only three dots". How did that happen?

    I have a hint:

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    I don't completely get the "stay at home" concept.
    The way the red dots get bigger and fill in gaps is through people giving it to each other.

    Skewed thinking is very prevalent in a ME-ME-ME society.

    Folks think "I don't have it" when they may or do have it. They think "I can't give it" when they may and do give it. They think "Just little ole me can't spread it". Then they forget that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Americans thinking "just little ole me" at the same time is precisely the way the way the red dots get solid.

    Richard230, shame on you. You may be right, you may not have the virus and you may not get the virus with your strategy. But shame on you for deciding that you - yeah, you - you are more important, more special, more deserving of a little ridey-ridey than all of the other riders and non-riders staying at home to stop the red dots spreading.

    Your skewed thinking is predicated on everyone else doing the right thing, but not you. For just 'little ole you' to go ridey-ridey on the quiet streets.

    Grow up. Act your age and play your part.

  50. #31
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    I've convinced 4 riding buddies to stay off the bike. I did this by stating my reasons and setting a good example. This is only conjecture on my part, but I believe if I had told them to grow up and act their age, I would not have been successful.
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  52. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildWilly View Post
    I've convinced 4 riding buddies to stay off the bike. I did this by stating my reasons and setting a good example. This is only conjecture on my part, but I believe if I had told them to grow up and act their age, I would not have been successful.
    If your reasons were fact based and they understood them, then telling them to "grow up and act their age" would not be necessary, by definition.

    Some people just refuse to accept what is happening and I am glad that you and your riding buddies get it.

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  54. #33
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    My comment was, and is, telling someone to grow up and act their is counter productive.
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  55. #34
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    WildWilly I respect your view, but if "grow up and act your age" is all that you took from my posts above I can't help you.

  56. #35
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    Peter, I also respect your view.
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  57. #36
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    I had a chat with my daughter who is studying philosophy and communications in University. I feel there is a field of study and career sorting out behaviors amongst large groups of people and how to speak to these groups.

    What is it that makes so many people wait to be told by their governments to wash their hands, don't go to a grocery store for socializing and don't buy a years' worth of toilet paper. And remain in your home.

    For some citizens this is not only completely obvious, it's second nature. These people don't wait for legislation to tell what is the right choice. They also don't pick and choose to justify doing the minimum. At the same time, they are neither afraid or failing to contribute to their community.

    Education, religion and income don't seem to be discerning factors. Poor civic behavior seems not to discriminate. And so, those who don't need the rules grow frustrated at those who require rules.

    It's a complicated situation and no easy answers. I'll leave to the generation following mine to learn more about this. And probably early a decent living doing so!
    Concrete remains undefeated. 

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  59. #37
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    Studies have shown that a person is programmed by the age of eight. Everything from that age on is based on what was programmed by that age and is applied and adapted for the rest of the person's life.

    This was known much earlier and applied by Religious Cults....

    “Give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the man.”

    Jesuit maxim




    Quote Originally Posted by Runmyownlife View Post
    I had a chat with my daughter who is studying philosophy and communications in University. I feel there is a field of study and career sorting out behaviors amongst large groups of people and how to speak to these groups.

    What is it that makes so many people wait to be told by their governments to wash their hands, don't go to a grocery store for socializing and don't buy a years' worth of toilet paper. And remain in your home.

    For some citizens this is not only completely obvious, it's second nature. These people don't wait for legislation to tell what is the right choice. They also don't pick and choose to justify doing the minimum. At the same time, they are neither afraid or failing to contribute to their community.

    Education, religion and income don't seem to be discerning factors. Poor civic behavior seems not to discriminate. And so, those who don't need the rules grow frustrated at those who require rules.

    It's a complicated situation and no easy answers. I'll leave to the generation following mine to learn more about this. And probably early a decent living doing so!
    BMW F800S…….

    There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies.... 

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  61. #38
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    It is also found in Roger and Hammerstein's "South Pacific"

    You've got to be taught before it's too late,
    Before you are six or seven or eight,
    To hate all the people your relatives hate,
    You’ve got to be carefully taught.


    Quote Originally Posted by Runmyownlife View Post
    I had a chat with my daughter who is studying philosophy and communications in University. I feel there is a field of study and career sorting out behaviors amongst large groups of people and how to speak to these groups.

    What is it that makes so many people wait to be told by their governments to wash their hands, don't go to a grocery store for socializing and don't buy a years' worth of toilet paper. And remain in your home.

    For some citizens this is not only completely obvious, it's second nature. These people don't wait for legislation to tell what is the right choice. They also don't pick and choose to justify doing the minimum. At the same time, they are neither afraid or failing to contribute to their community.

    Education, religion and income don't seem to be discerning factors. Poor civic behavior seems not to discriminate. And so, those who don't need the rules grow frustrated at those who require rules.

    It's a complicated situation and no easy answers. I'll leave to the generation following mine to learn more about this. And probably early a decent living doing so!
    BMW F800S…….

    There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies.... 

  62. #39
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    As someone in the high risk category, I am more concerned about catching coronavirus from others than I am about spreading it to others. I live in a rural area in north Georgia, close to national forest lands. Lumpkin County has a low population density, and reported its first COVID-2 case 2 weeks ago; as of today we have 9 reported cases.

    Yesterday I went for a ~50-mile ride along USFS fire roads. I saw 2 motorcycles, 1 bicycle, and three pickups over approximately a 2-hour period. I spoke with nobody, and didn't come within 10 feet of anybody. I did not stop for gas, or anything else, and I touched nothing other than my motorcycle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Risk avoidance is a more serious reason not to ride. If there were not some dangers involved in this activity, we wouldn't be covered from head to toe with helmet, armored clothing, gloves, and boots. The last place I want to be at this time is in an ER, both for exposure reasons, and because I do not want to add to an already over-burdened medical system. On the other hand, I have broken a wrist by falling off a 2-step ladder, I sustained a concussion when I passed out and my head hit a slate floor in my house, and I developed a painful kidney stone all while at home.

    Moshe Levy (who wrote for Motorcycle Consumer News until it recently ceased publication) published two videos on this topic recently on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvLNzElW4A0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ycd011AIs

    Unlike Moshe, I don't live in a densely populated area with more than 47,000 reported COVID-19 cases and more than 1500 deaths (both figures will likely be higher by tomorrow morning).

    So, yes, I still ride, and I plan to continue do so unless I am ordered to stop, or the USFS roads are closed, or there are many more cases where I live. I believe that driving to town once or twice a week for groceries at Walmart presents a greater risk to my health than riding.

    Each person has to make his own decisions, and live or die with the consequences.

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  64. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selden View Post
    As someone in the high risk category, I am more concerned about catching coronavirus from others than I am about spreading it to others. I live in a rural area in north Georgia, close to national forest lands. Lumpkin County has a low population density, and reported its first COVID-2 case 2 weeks ago; as of today we have 9 reported cases.

    Yesterday I went for a ~50-mile ride along USFS fire roads. I saw 2 motorcycles, 1 bicycle, and three pickups over approximately a 2-hour period. I spoke with nobody, and didn't come within 10 feet of anybody. I did not stop for gas, or anything else, and I touched nothing other than my motorcycle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Risk avoidance is a more serious reason not to ride. If there were not some dangers involved in this activity, we wouldn't be covered from head to toe with helmet, armored clothing, gloves, and boots. The last place I want to be at this time is in an ER, both for exposure reasons, and because I do not want to add to an already over-burdened medical system. On the other hand, I have broken a wrist by falling off a 2-step ladder, I sustained a concussion when I passed out and my head hit a slate floor in my house, and I developed a painful kidney stone all while at home.

    Moshe Levy (who wrote for Motorcycle Consumer News until it recently ceased publication) published two videos on this topic recently on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvLNzElW4A0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ycd011AIs

    Unlike Moshe, I don't live in a densely populated area with more than 47,000 reported COVID-19 cases and more than 1500 deaths (both figures will likely be higher by tomorrow morning).

    So, yes, I still ride, and I plan to continue do so unless I am ordered to stop, or the USFS roads are closed, or there are many more cases where I live. I believe that driving to town once or twice a week for groceries at Walmart presents a greater risk to my health than riding.

    Each person has to make his own decisions, and live or die with the consequences.
    So if you have an accident on your bike, you'll be putting more pressure on an already pressurised Health service that is in high demand. And then you'll definitely catch Covid once you're in a Hospital with patients full of it.

    This issue is not about you making your own decision to live or die, it's about society living or dying. The Isolation is about slowing the spread and protecting the health services from getting overwhelmed - they do not have unlimited resources.

    There's a reason Italy went in to a total lock down where you cannot leave your house at all. Only for groceries and pharmacies; no exercise! The reason why, because of people taking the proverbial. Which then meant everyone got punished. So if you what want is to be told like a child to stay indoors, you'll soon have it if society does not govern itself. You're currently being told what you need to do, without enforcement for a reason - to give you the chance to do the right thing.
    BMW F800ST, 2010, Black, Fuzeblock, Sat Nav, BMW Tank Bag, Givi Touring Screen, 

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  66. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ123 View Post
    So if you have an accident on your bike, you'll be putting more pressure on an already pressurised Health service that is in high demand. And then you'll definitely catch Covid once you're in a Hospital with patients full of it.

    This issue is not about you making your own decision to live or die, it's about society living or dying. The Isolation is about slowing the spread and protecting the health services from getting overwhelmed - they do not have unlimited resources.
    To some degree it's comparing apples with oranges, but in the past 60 years, I have had far more incidents around and inside my home that required medical attention than has been the case with riding motorcycles. If I wore full motorcycle gear around the house, most of these would not have required medical attention.

    We still have 9 reported cases in my county.

  67. #42
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    In the meantime, I heard last night that there are still four states in the U.S. who are not requiring their residents to shelter in place. One of the states was mentioned by name. That is Arkansas, where the Governor of that state has prohibited local jurisdictions from imposing their own shelter in place regulations. He wants everyone in the state to go about their business and just ignore the virus. So there, take that World.
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  68. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    In the meantime, I heard last night that there are still four states in the U.S. who are not requiring their residents to shelter in place. One of the states was mentioned by name. That is Arkansas, where the Governor of that state has prohibited local jurisdictions from imposing their own shelter in place regulations. He wants everyone in the state to go about their business and just ignore the virus. So there, take that World.
    Another case for not letting first cousins marry.
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  70. #44
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    Sounds like the stance the UK was talking about a month or so back, ya know, before Boris went into the ICU

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  72. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    Sounds like the stance the UK was talking about a month or so back, ya know, before Boris went into the ICU

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    Social distancing was in place about 2 weeks before we went in to isolation (we're in our 3rd week now). As expected infection rates has dropped, but you won't get to peak deaths yet for another couple of weeks they reckon.

    Sweden (as far as i'ma ware) still don't have a lock down in place.
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  74. #46
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    "When you gradually come back, you don't jump into it with both feet. You say, what are the things you could still do and still approach normal? One of them is absolute compulsive hand-washing. The other is you don't ever shake anybody's hands," Fauci
    BMW F800S…….

    There is no words to adequately describe the batshit crazies.... 

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  76. #47
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    I hear that the UK's BJ is now out of ICU and his health is improving. He will probably be back to work soon. But I bet they don't let him near the Queen for quite a while.

    Meanwhile, our guy just keeps on doing his thing - whatever feels good to him today.
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  77. #48
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    Posted on Facebook by a bike-riding UK nurse but I think this probably applies anywhere: -

    "Wow, what a response. I am overwhelmed. Now I need you all to be grown up bikers please.
    Covid-19 is due to peak in 9-14 days, over the Easter Bank Holiday Weekend. ...The weather is beautiful, the roads are clear and cabin fever has set in for us all. There is NOTHING like the freedom of the ride . I am aching to ride, and would normally form any excuse, to alleviate the current pressures to socialise with my beautiful biking friends but PLEASE do not ride out .
    I work for the ambulance service, based in the RSCH. I will still commute, (reluctantly) in my car to work because it is safer and I can.
    Please don't ride your bikes as an excuse to get an essential pint of milk or to give your bikes a run.
    If the worst should happen, we would all struggle to help you and you would end up in a rampant Covid-19 positive environment where we are stretched to capacity.
    I am based at the Royal Surrey County Hospital in Guildford, Surrey and work with THE most amazing people. Like all of our UK hospitals,
    Oxygen supplies are stretched. Resus Equipment is stretched and PPE is high in demand.
    All RSCH staff Bank Holiday entitlement is cancelled over the next Easter Weekend. It's all hands on deck as we try to contain this virus, transfer patients to safe environments, return patients to their homes or care homes or on to hospices for End of Life Care. Of course there will be some that will not leave and never see their families again.
    Please do not ride out. Help us please. Xxx If you need the help of the NHS crews and our teams, we will struggle to help you. We all hate to fail. It breaks us. Our passion is in helping others.
    Every single one of you are amazing and I am so proud to be part of this. Please don't give in to the sunshine and ride out .
    Be safe and be connected. This ride, wouldn't be the same without each and every one of you. Xxx"
    2014 GT Orange. Just the comfort pack and heated grips - not into gizmos.

    "Pity the man who wasn't born in the Highlands and hears the pipes"  

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  79. #49
    Points: 1,119, Level: 19

    Location
    QLD, Australia
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    As another bike riding nurse. I beg of you all to not find any excuse to ride and to stay at home!

    I have to commute, a 140km round trip daily. I don't do it for fun, I do it because I am on the frontline looking after people.

    I myself am high risk, I have multiple autoimmune conditions and am a brittle asthmatic. I am also under the age of 40 and I work in a high risk environment.

    I will continue to go to work because being a nurse is in my blood and running from this is not something I could in good conscience do. My family is in isolation, my partner is not out riding (as much as he wants to ride he won't put me and others at risk). They are doing their best to keep me safe. My teenage son doesn't deserve to lose his mum not does my partner deserve to lose his partner, not my dad and grandmother to lose their daughter and granddaughter.

    Stop looking for excuses like "my bike needs a run" - you can run the engine at home. Or trying to find every little loophole. You may not have the virus, you may not get it and spread it but you COULD and the flow on effect can be devastating. You could also have an off, they happen and to say "it never happens to me" is a stupid and selfish attitude. I have always ridden and advised newer/younger riders that it's not a matter of if but of when, because no one lives their whole riding life having never come off and those that say deny it are lying through their teeth. You coming off ties up valuable resources, you needing an ICU bed means that someone else could very well lose a family member to this virus. All because you were selfish.

    My final words STAY THE F**K AT HOME.

    Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk

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  81. #50
    ccramerusc's Avatar
    Points: 8,108, Level: 62

    Real Name
    Cramer
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Joined
    Jun 2013
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    10 Hours Ago
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    Motorcycle
    '08 F800ST
    Coronavirus molecules are up to .125 microns. That's crazy small and can easily get through any normal mask, N95, or even a surgical mask. Thankfully it doesn't get out or hang out by itself very often. It typically is stuck to dust, mucus, or liquid molecules which are all much larger. Surgical (or non surgical) masks are not designed to protect the wearer from the environment, they are designed to protect the environment from the wearer. That's because they will catch the small liquid and mucus droplets as they come out of your mouth and nose along with bacteria and virus molecules that are attached to them. So even cloth or cheapo masks will help significantly in reducing someone spreading the virus because it dramatically reduces the liquid and mucus vapor that has the virus attached.

    It would be extremely rare/hard for you to contract the coronavirus through inhalation. Instead it is primarily transfered by touch. You touch a surface that has it, then touch one of your mucus membranes. This is why gloves also won't help you from the environment. You just carry the virus on the gloves until you touch your mucus membranes with a gloved hand. Gloves also don't stop the spread because the virus can only come out of your body through mucus membranes or blood.

    It's the touching of surfaces that other people touch that spreads the virus. Then, after touching a contaminated surface, you are the one who gets it into your own body by touching your mucus membranes. Then again, many people will just spread it around to different surfaces which will expose more/different people, then wash it off their hands before they touch their own mucus membranes, so they didn't get it, instead they just helped spread it.

    So the less places you go, the less things you touch when you are out, and the fewer people you interact with (at home), the less your chance of spreading and/contracting it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    08' F800ST- side panniers & Shad SH45 top case, Russell Day Long seat, MRA Vario Windscreen, SW Motech crash bars, ZTechnik exhaust, PC-8 fuseblock, Stebel Nautilus horn, Throttlemeister throttle lock, SW Motech handlebar risers, LED fog lights, highway pegs 

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